Author Topic: I am anxious to hear the right-wing spin on this tid-bit of truth.  (Read 8107 times)

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I am sure it will be amusing and amazing.


By MARK MAZZETTI
Published: September 24, 2006
WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — A stark assessment of terrorism trends by American intelligence agencies has found that the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks.


The classified National Intelligence Estimate attributes a more direct role to the Iraq war in fueling radicalism than that presented either in recent White House documents or in a report released Wednesday by the House Intelligence Committee, according to several officials in Washington involved in preparing the assessment or who have read the final document.

The intelligence estimate, completed in April, is the first formal appraisal of global terrorism by United States intelligence agencies since the Iraq war began, and represents a consensus view of the 16 disparate spy services inside government. Titled “Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States,’’ it asserts that Islamic radicalism, rather than being in retreat, has metastasized and spread across the globe.

An opening section of the report, “Indicators of the Spread of the Global Jihadist Movement,” cites the Iraq war as a reason for the diffusion of jihad ideology.

The report “says that the Iraq war has made the overall terrorism problem worse,” said one American intelligence official.

More than a dozen United States government officials and outside experts were interviewed for this article, and all spoke only on condition of anonymity because they were discussing a classified intelligence document. The officials included employees of several government agencies, and both supporters and critics of the Bush administration. All of those interviewed had either seen the final version of the document or participated in the creation of earlier drafts. These officials discussed some of the document’s general conclusions but not details, which remain highly classified.

Officials with knowledge of the intelligence estimate said it avoided specific judgments about the likelihood that terrorists would once again strike on United States soil. The relationship between the Iraq war and terrorism, and the question of whether the United States is safer, have been subjects of persistent debate since the war began in 2003.

National Intelligence Estimates are the most authoritative documents that the intelligence community produces on a specific national security issue, and are approved by John D. Negroponte, director of national intelligence. Their conclusions are based on analysis of raw intelligence collected by all of the spy agencies.

Analysts began working on the estimate in 2004, but it was not finalized until this year. Part of the reason was that some government officials were unhappy with the structure and focus of earlier versions of the document, according to officials involved in the discussion.

Previous drafts described actions by the United States government that were determined to have stoked the jihad movement, like the indefinite detention of prisoners at Guantánamo Bay and the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal, and some policy makers argued that the intelligence estimate should be more focused on specific steps to mitigate the terror threat. It is unclear whether the final draft of the intelligence estimate criticizes individual policies of the United States, but intelligence officials involved in preparing the document said its conclusions were not softened or massaged for political purposes.

Frederick Jones, a White House spokesman, said the White House “played no role in drafting or reviewing the judgments expressed in the National Intelligence Estimate on terrorism.” The estimate’s judgments confirm some predictions of a National Intelligence Council report completed in January 2003, two months before the Iraq invasion. That report stated that the approaching war had the potential to increase support for political Islam worldwide and could increase support for some terrorist objectives.

Documents released by the White House timed to coincide with the fifth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks emphasized the successes that the United States had made in dismantling the top tier of Al Qaeda.

“Since the Sept. 11 attacks, America and its allies are safer, but we are not yet safe,” concludes one, a report titled “9/11 Five Years Later: Success and Challenges.” “We have done much to degrade Al Qaeda and its affiliates and to undercut the perceived legitimacy of terrorism.”

That document makes only passing mention of the impact the Iraq war has had on the global jihad movement. “The ongoing fight for freedom in Iraq has been twisted by terrorist propaganda as a rallying cry,” it states.

The report mentions the possibility that Islamic militants who fought in Iraq could return to their home countries, “exacerbating domestic conflicts or fomenting radical ideologies.”

On Wednesday, the Republican-controlled House Intelligence Committee released a more ominous report about the terrorist threat. That assessment, based entirely on unclassified documents, details a growing jihad movement and says, “Al Qaeda leaders wait patiently for the right opportunity to attack.”

The new National Intelligence Estimate was overseen by David B. Low, the national intelligence officer for transnational threats, who commissioned it in 2004 after he took up his post at the National Intelligence Council. Mr. Low declined to be interviewed for this article.

The estimate concludes that the radical Islamic movement has expanded from a core of Qaeda operatives and affiliated groups to include a new class of “self-generating” cells inspired by Al Qaeda’s leadership but without any direct connection to Osama bin Laden or his top lieutenants.

It also examines how the Internet has helped spread jihadist ideology, and how cyberspace has become a haven for terrorist operatives who no longer have geographical refuges in countries like Afghanistan.

In early 2005, the National Intelligence Council released a study concluding that Iraq had become the primary training ground for the next generation of terrorists, and that veterans of the Iraq war might ultimately overtake Al Qaeda’s current leadership in the constellation of the global jihad leadership.

But the new intelligence estimate is the first report since the war began to present a comprehensive picture about the trends in global terrorism.

In recent months, some senior American intelligence officials have offered glimpses into the estimate’s conclusions in public speeches.

“New jihadist networks and cells, sometimes united by little more than their anti-Western agendas, are increasingly likely to emerge,” said Gen. Michael V. Hayden, during a speech in San Antonio in April, the month that the new estimate was completed. “If this trend continues, threats to the U.S. at home and abroad will become more diverse and that could lead to increasing attacks worldwide,” said the general, who was then Mr. Negroponte’s top deputy and is now director of the Central Intelligence Agency.

For more than two years, there has been tension between the Bush administration and American spy agencies over the violence in Iraq and the prospects for a stable democracy in the country. Some intelligence officials have said the White House has consistently presented a more optimistic picture of the situation in Iraq than justified by intelligence reports from the field.

Spy agencies usually produce several national intelligence estimates each year on a variety of subjects. The most controversial of these in recent years was an October 2002 document assessing Iraq’s illicit weapons programs. Several government investigations have discredited that report, and the intelligence community is overhauling how it analyzes data, largely as a result of those investigations.

The broad judgments of the new intelligence estimate are consistent with assessments of global terrorist threats by American allies and independent terrorism experts.

The panel investigating the London terrorist bombings of July 2005 reported in May that the leaders of Britain’s domestic and international intelligence services, MI5 and MI6, “emphasized to the committee the growing scale of the Islamist terrorist threat.”

More recently, the Council on Global Terrorism, an independent research group of respected terrorism experts, assigned a grade of “D+” to United States efforts over the past five years to combat Islamic extremism. The council concluded that “there is every sign that radicalization in the Muslim world is spreading rather than shrinking.”

http://www.nytimes.com/

Amianthus

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Re: I am anxious to hear the right-wing spin on this tid-bit of truth.
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2006, 02:49:39 AM »
This is a NIE produced by the same groups that estimated that Iraq had WMDs, right?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

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Re: I am anxious to hear the right-wing spin on this tid-bit of truth.
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2006, 02:52:37 AM »
This is a NIE produced by the same groups that estimated that Iraq had WMDs, right?

I was about to say the same thing Ami.  Their connclusions were denounced as not amounting to anything credible or substantive.  So much for the Bush lied diatribe
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

hnumpah

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Re: I am anxious to hear the right-wing spin on this tid-bit of truth.
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2006, 07:49:00 AM »
Ooooh, so they're only right when the administration can cherry pick them for tidbits that support their claims to convince the US to go to war, but when their conclusions point to something unfavorable to the administration, well, they can't be trusted. Maybe you should remember that there was also intelligence saying Iraq didn't have WMDs, but that was pretty much ignored - it didn't bolster the case for war.

"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

Michael Tee

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Re: I am anxious to hear the right-wing spin on this tid-bit of truth.
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2006, 08:06:14 AM »
Well that's a little different spin than I was expecting.  I thought the spin would be, it's not the invasion and occupation that increased the terrorism, it was America's weakness and division as manifested by treasonous liberal Democrats that encouraged these murderous antisemitic beheading savages to resist our noble efforts to steal their oil, ooops, I mean to liberate them from tyranny.

But this is even better - -

"Years of intenive study, my ass.  In 1991 these folks said [blah etc.]  Once wrong, ALWAYS wrong."

Which of course, begs the question, well why does the Commander in Chief continue to rely upon such dunderheaded incompetents to provide him with such crucial information?  If they're so unreliable, why do they still have their jobs?  And of course, we all know the answer to that one - - Ya know who HIRED them all?  It was CLINTON!!!!  This is all Bill Clinton's fault.  Bush has only had 1 and 1/2 terms, it'll take a LIFETIME to undo all of CLINTON'S mistakes.

sirs

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Re: I am anxious to hear the right-wing spin on this tid-bit of truth.
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2006, 11:53:27 AM »
so they're only right when the administration can cherry pick them for tidbits that support their claims to convince the US to go to war, but when their conclusions point to something unfavorable to the administration, well, they can't be trusted

Who said that?  Boy that's one twisted distorted conclusion
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

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Re: I am anxious to hear the right-wing spin on this tid-bit of truth.
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2006, 04:55:38 PM »
This is a NIE produced by the same groups that estimated that Iraq had WMDs, right?

Of course you are right. One can never ever admit to a mistake. Instead never admit it and continue in a wrong-headed path that destroys any chance at success like the Bushidiot does.

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Re: I am anxious to hear the right-wing spin on this tid-bit of truth.
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2006, 04:58:41 PM »
Of course you are right.

Of course.

Instead never admit it and continue in a wrong-headed path that destroys any chance at success like the Bushidiot does.

So, you're saying that the NIE you just quoted from is wrong, correct?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Plane

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Re: I am anxious to hear the right-wing spin on this tid-bit of truth.
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2006, 05:06:11 PM »
Officials with knowledge of the intelligence estimate said it avoided specific judgments about the likelihood that terrorists would once again strike on United States soil.




[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

So terrorism is getting worse than it was .

But not here?

Mucho

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Re: I am anxious to hear the right-wing spin on this tid-bit of truth.
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2006, 05:58:25 PM »
Officials with knowledge of the intelligence estimate said it avoided specific judgments about the likelihood that terrorists would once again strike on United States soil.




[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

So terrorism is getting worse than it was .

But not here?


Bush was nice enough to export 147000 nice young American men & women closer to the terrorists so that they could be more easily killed. Why bother coming here when you have plenty enough Americans to kill closer to home? Decent of him, dontcha think? Cuts down on overhead of all those one -way tickets.

Plane

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Re: I am anxious to hear the right-wing spin on this tid-bit of truth.
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2006, 07:28:03 PM »
Officials with knowledge of the intelligence estimate said it avoided specific judgments about the likelihood that terrorists would once again strike on United States soil.




[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

So terrorism is getting worse than it was .

But not here?


Bush was nice enough to export 147000 nice young American men & women closer to the terrorists so that they could be more easily killed. Why bother coming here when you have plenty enough Americans to kill closer to home? Decent of him, dontcha think? Cuts down on overhead of all those one -way tickets.


Yes , this has given them the chance to shoot at Americans who are well armed and likely to shoot back , not what they would prefer I suppose since in the past they had a marked prefrence for the unarmed and helpless.

Mucho

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Re: I am anxious to hear the right-wing spin on this tid-bit of truth.
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2006, 02:24:24 PM »
Quote


Yes , this has given them the chance to shoot at Americans who are well armed and likely to shoot back , not what they would prefer I suppose since in the past they had a marked prefrence for the unarmed and helpless.

I doubt if it matters to those that are willing to die for their cause whether their targets are armed or not. The hijackers on 9/11 died along with their victims. I also wonder now whether our troops are as well armed as you seem to think. We did the war on the cheap to save your tax cuts you know.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-military25sep25,1,3969385,full.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true
« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 03:46:28 PM by BT »

hnumpah

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Re: I am anxious to hear the right-wing spin on this tid-bit of truth.
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2006, 11:33:39 PM »
Quote
Who said that?  Boy that's one twisted distorted conclusion

You missed the best part of the quote...

Quote
Maybe you should remember that there was also intelligence saying Iraq didn't have WMDs, but that was pretty much ignored - it didn't bolster the case for war.

Of course, that disagrees with your alternate reality, so I understand.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

sirs

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Re: I am anxious to hear the right-wing spin on this tid-bit of truth.
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2006, 11:42:00 PM »
You missed the best part of the quote..."Maybe you should remember that there was also intelligence saying Iraq didn't have WMDs, but that was pretty much ignored - it didn't bolster the case for war".

Didn't miss it at all.  The fact is the vast preponderance of intel said otherwise however.  I agreed with the NIE & produced it along with a plethora of other sources to back up the decisions made by Bush, in going to war.  Now perhaps, you can demonstrate where anyone claimed that when their (NIE) conclusions point to something unfavorable to the administration, they then can't be trusted

Ball in your court, in any reality
« Last Edit: September 26, 2006, 04:41:52 AM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: I am anxious to hear the right-wing spin on this tid-bit of truth.
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2006, 11:27:15 AM »
Posted by: sirs 
Insert Quote
You missed the best part of the quote..."Maybe you should remember that there was also intelligence saying Iraq didn't have WMDs, but that was pretty much ignored - it didn't bolster the case for war".

Didn't miss it at all.  The fact is the vast preponderance of intel said otherwise however.  I agreed with the NIE & produced it along with a plethora of other sources to back up the decisions made by Bush, in going to war.  Now perhaps, you can demonstrate where anyone claimed that when their (NIE) conclusions point to something unfavorable to the administration, they then can't be trusted

 


Ummm, H.  Did you miss this the last go around?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle