'Tea party' movement: Who are they and what do they want?

[sirs]

D'OH     

[Michael Tee]

Nice try, Prince.  My "What's opposition but . . ." DOES reduce opposition to the plan to simple fascism.  Looks like I overstated the case.  Obviously there are some who oppose the plan because they fell for the lying TV ads about the Canadian health care system (the woman with the "brain tumor" that was in fact a benign cyst) or were scared by the "death panel" bullshit of the lying politics of fear practiced so well by the GOP.

I overstated the case by calling them ALL fascists when I should have said that the active core of the movement, the people setting the agenda and masterminding the propaganda, on behalf of the insurance industry, THEY were primarily fascist in motivation.


So on the narrow issue, I overstated and can safely backtrack to the money behind the opposition to the health care reform is fascist in nature and purpose.  In the overall debate, did I erroneously characterize the tea parties as crypto-fascist, no I did not, and even with the correction you forced me to make, I believe I still demonstrated the overall fascist nature of the tea parties.  So you win a skirmish but you still lose the war, Prince.

[Universe Prince]

I believe I still demonstrated the overall fascist nature of the tea parties.

All I saw you do is accuse them of being fascist, and your support for this was that they do not agree with your political preferences. So as best I can tell, you have not demonstrated anything, except your own irrationally prejudiced partisanship.

[Michael Tee]

<<All I saw you do is accuse them of being fascist, and your support for this was that they do not agree with your political preferences. So as best I can tell, you have not demonstrated anything, except your own irrationally prejudiced partisanship.>>

Well what you just demonstrated is your outstanding ability as a rewrite man.  I gave quite a few indicia of fascism vis-a-vis the Tea Parties, including the corporatism evidenced by the strenuous opposition to single-payer universal health care schemes, which your rewrite skills transformed into a simple failure to agree with me.  Fortunately there is a written record against which your rewrites can be measured.

[sirs]

fas'cism  (fāsh'ĭz'əm)    
n.  
often Fascism

A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.


Hmmmmm, a current administration that is attempting to centralize our healthcare.  Has already largely centralized the banking industry, and a large chunk of the Domestic Automobile Industry, and largely dictated to by DC Czars, while allowing the said companies/agencies to still "function" outside their immediate control.  But the "tea party" folks are the fascists.  What a fascinating disconnect

[Universe Prince]

Well what you just demonstrated is your outstanding ability as a rewrite man.  I gave quite a few indicia of fascism vis-a-vis the Tea Parties, including the corporatism evidenced by the strenuous opposition to single-payer universal health care schemes, which your rewrite skills transformed into a simple failure to agree with me.  Fortunately there is a written record against which your rewrites can be measured.

You can try to run away from this by accusing me of a rewrite, but the written record will support my position without any editing. You equate opposition to a single payer, government run health care program and and support for corporatism/fascism with essentially zero allowance that one could oppose the government run program without support for corporatism or fascism. That is a clear indicator that you are being extremely partisan and have approached the matter with, oh, how did you put it... ah, yes, with "a 12-year-old mindset that sees everything in terms of white and black." The written record does not contradict this or hide it in anyway. On the contrary, the record makes this clearly apparent.

[Michael Tee]

I admit that I overstated the case for corporatist theory as the source of ALL opposition to the single-payer system, but I took that back when it was pointed out to me, allowing that some of the opposition was due to idiots who had succumbed to the GOP fear-mongering campaign.  The basis of the opposition to the plan by the brains behind the movement is still corporatism and I stand behind that.

I also stand behind my earlier description of the Tea Party as crypto-fascist, and cite not only the corporatism (which you had demanded as proof of fascism) but the racism of the movement.

In regard to the racist aspect of the Tea Party movement, I note that Meghan McCain has now condemned this as well in an appearance on The View (sorry, no link available) - - citing the Tea Party demand for literacy tests for voters, a well-known racist device ensuring a lily-white electorate in the South that persisted till the Voting Rights Act of 1965. 

[sirs]

In regard to the racist aspect of the Tea Party movement, I note that Meghan McCain has now condemned this as well in an appearance on The View (sorry, no link available) - - citing the Tea Party demand for literacy tests for voters, a well-known racist device ensuring a lily-white electorate in the South that persisted till the Voting Rights Act of 1965. 

Oh GOOD GRAVY.  To think, we want people who acually have the mental capacity to read & write, as the folks be the voting for some of the most important decisions this country has to make, be it its representatives, propositions, or the President.  Apparently Tee has no problem with folks who have no clue as to what they're voting on, to be able to vote.  So much the easier to herd them in the appropriate (read; Democrat) direction.

It's also apparently Tee's contention that only "lily white folks" can read and write.  Man would I take offense, if I were a minority American

[Universe Prince]

I admit that I overstated the case for corporatist theory as the source of ALL opposition to the single-payer system, but I took that back when it was pointed out to me, allowing that some of the opposition was due to idiots who had succumbed to the GOP fear-mongering campaign.

Ah, yes, you allow the 'grey' that some members are not fascist, just idiots. How not at all open-minded of you. This alters the reality (as opposed to your whitewash) of your position not even a little.

citing the Tea Party demand for literacy tests for voters

As best I can determine, the Tea Party movement has made no such demand. Tom Tancredo apparently suggested it in a speech to the Tea Party convention, but there has been no demand that I can see.

[sirs]

If they advocated such Prince, you would consider that racist??  or simply, not to start an arguement, "anti-immigrant"??  You'd have no problem with folks who had no clue how to read or write in English, voting in American elections??

Just curious

[sirs]

fas'cism  (fāsh'ĭz'əm)    
n.  
often Fascism

A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.


Hmmmmm, a current administration that is attempting to centralize our healthcare.  Has already largely centralized the banking industry, and a large chunk of the Domestic Automobile Industry, and largely dictated to by DC Czars, while allowing the said companies/agencies to still "function" outside their immediate control.  But the "tea party" folks are the fascists.  What a fascinating disconnect

Fancy this....MORE Government.  Whoda thunk it?

Obama Creating New Govt Agency for "Climate Service" 

The Obama administration is in the process of forming a new government agency dedicated to addressing the impending doom of global warming:

U.S. Commerce Secretary Gary Locke today announced the intent to create a [National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration]  Climate Service line office dedicated to bringing together the agency?s strong climate science and service delivery capabilities.

Apparently there is a big demand from the American public for "relevant and timely information" about global warming "to inform decision-making about virtually all aspects of their lives"--such a big demand, we need a new government agency to manage it.

?By providing critical planning information that our businesses and our communities need, NOAA Climate Service will help tackle head-on the challenges of mitigating and adapting to climate change,? said Secretary Locke. ?In the process, we'll discover new technologies, build new businesses and create new jobs.?

The best part of the announcement: ?NOAA is committed to scientific integrity and transparency; we seek to advance science and strengthen product development and delivery through user engagement.? (emphases mine)

NOAA is also unveiling a new website today, www.climate.gov, which coincidentally highlights "short-term cooling on a warming planet" following this weekend's record-breaking blizzards.


Scientific integrity & transparency, my ass

[Michael Tee]

<<Ah, yes, you allow the 'grey' that some members are not fascist, just idiots. How not at all open-minded of you. This alters the reality (as opposed to your whitewash) of your position not even a little.>>

Of course it alters my position.  Originally it was that they were all fascists, now it is that the brains and the raison d’être are corporatist (fascist) but that some of the rank and file are just idiots.  Certainly this takes away from the original blanket condemnation of all of them as fascists.  Fascists are worse than idiots, IMHO.

<<As best I can determine, the Tea Party movement has made no such demand [of literacy tests for voters]. Tom Tancredo apparently suggested it in a speech to the Tea Party convention, but there has been no demand that I can see.>>

Yeah and I bet the Tea Partiers just booed him off the stage for it, right?  Not.  Ever figure out how a nationally recognized anti-immigrant figure like Tancredo got to be a speaker at the Tea Party convention in the first place, if they're not racist?  Were they shocked - - SHOCKED? at Tancredo's racist proposals?  LMAO.

[sirs]

That'd be based on the premice that such statements are "racist", at their core.  They aren't, thus the accusation is *surprise* without merit

[Plane]

<<Ah, yes, you allow the 'grey' that some members are not fascist, just idiots. How not at all open-minded of you. This alters the reality (as opposed to your whitewash) of your position not even a little.>>

Of course it alters my position.  Originally it was that they were all fascists, now it is that the brains and the raison d’être are corporatist (fascist) but that some of the rank and file are just idiots.

I thought that the corporations were good with the Obama health care plan.

All the insureance companys were getting a peice of the pie, they were not really fighting it.

I guess that for someone who is carefully searching out conspiracys , there is no grassroot movement anywhere.

[Michael Tee]

<<I thought that the corporations were good with the Obama health care plan.>>

They should have been good with it, since all real reform had long since been cut out of it.  But you know the greed of the corporation - - the plan after it was successfully neutered gave them 75% of their cake, but now they saw a way to get 100% of the pie by ditching the plan completely.  Thanks in part to the Tea Party campaign.

<<All the insureance companys were getting a peice of the pie, they were not really fighting it.>>

That's what you think.  The GOP wasn't just fighting the plan, they were fighting Obama.  His failure = their triumph.  Ask Limbaugh.  Ask Glenn Beck.  If the insurance industry salvages 75% of its profits, the fight against Obama goes on.  If in the course of the fight against Obama, health care can be further damaged, so that the 75% salvage becomes 100%, hey, why the hell not?

<<I guess that for someone who is carefully searching out conspiracys , there is no grassroot movement anywhere.>>

If there is, and it's right-wing, somebody on the right will capture it and throw a harness on it fast enough.