Way to go Obama, reliance on gov at all time high

[Kramer]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/01/americans-reliance-on-government-at-all-time-high/

[Michael Tee]

So people find that the government which they have elected can actually rescue them when the shit hits the fan, and this is a BAD thing?

Interesting concept.  What do YOU think government should do when times are tough?  Kill off the weakest and poorest 20%?

You guys are so totally fucked up I don't even know where to begin.

[Kramer]

So people find that the government which they have elected can actually rescue them when the shit hits the fan, and this is a BAD thing?

Interesting concept.  What do YOU think government should do when times are tough?  Kill off the weakest and poorest 20%?

You guys are so totally fucked up I don't even know where to begin.

I get it, it's the hurt em and heal em concept. Here's how it works -- government ruins the economy, then prints a bunch of money and hands it out to losers and then becomes the hero and savior. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

[Michael Tee]

<<I get it, it's the hurt em and heal em concept. Here's how it works -- government ruins the economy, then prints a bunch of money and hands it out to losers and then becomes the hero and savior. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.>>

Huh?  GOVERNMENT ruined the economy?  GOVERNMENT? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Kramer, how can we have a serious discussion if you're not prepared to get serious?

[Kramer]

<<I get it, it's the hurt em and heal em concept. Here's how it works -- government ruins the economy, then prints a bunch of money and hands it out to losers and then becomes the hero and savior. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.>>

Huh?  GOVERNMENT ruined the economy?  GOVERNMENT? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Kramer, how can we have a serious discussion if you're not prepared to get serious?

really tell me where I went wrong, I thought this was all Bush's fault?

[Michael Tee]

<<really tell me where I went wrong, I thought this was all Bush's fault?>>

Oh, please, you can't let Bush hog all the credit for THIS disaster.  Certainly he sat on his ass for eight long years while the problem just built and built and built, but it was not Bush who outsourced America's jobs, and it wasn't Bush who made all the bad loans, and it wasn't Bush who ran the Ponzi schemes and the corporate rip-offs that stole hundreds of billions of dollars from the American people, and it wasn't Bush who manufactured cars that no one wanted to buy.

Bush was just an innocent bystander, watching it all with his thumb in his bum and his mind in neutral, while Business - - yeah, that's right, Business a.k.a. Free Enterprise - - robbed, stole, schemed and connived the country into the disaster that government saved it from.

[Kramer]

<<really tell me where I went wrong, I thought this was all Bush's fault?>>

Oh, please, you can't let Bush hog all the credit for THIS disaster.  Certainly he sat on his ass for eight long years while the problem just built and built and built, but it was not Bush who outsourced America's jobs, and it wasn't Bush who made all the bad loans, and it wasn't Bush who ran the Ponzi schemes and the corporate rip-offs that stole hundreds of billions of dollars from the American people, and it wasn't Bush who manufactured cars that no one wanted to buy.

Bush was just an innocent bystander, watching it all with his thumb in his bum and his mind in neutral, while Business - - yeah, that's right, Business a.k.a. Free Enterprise - - robbed, stole, schemed and connived the country into the disaster that government saved it from.

yeah but Bush had to have made it easier for those bankers and other Wallstreet people to do all those terrible things, therefore, I am correct in saying this was the governments fault, aren't I Mike?

[Michael Tee]

<<yeah but Bush had to have made it easier for those bankers and other Wallstreet people to do all those terrible things, therefore, I am correct in saying this was the governments fault, aren't I Mike?>>

Well, Bush had a share in responsibility for it, as did prior administrations of both parties, but the primary actors in the disaster were business, not government.  They were the ones who created the problems, government's contribution was basically limited to not intervening in them.

[Kramer]

<<yeah but Bush had to have made it easier for those bankers and other Wallstreet people to do all those terrible things, therefore, I am correct in saying this was the governments fault, aren't I Mike?>>

Well, Bush had a share in responsibility for it, as did prior administrations of both parties, but the primary actors in the disaster were business, not government.  They were the ones who created the problems, government's contribution was basically limited to not intervening in them.

now we are getting some place -- in reality the government intervtion by people like Barney Skank and other Democrats and a few Republicans caused the financial crises and the government is currently making things worse not better.

[Michael Tee]

<<now we are getting some place -- in reality the government intervtion by people like Barney Skank and other Democrats and a few Republicans caused the financial crises and the government is currently making things worse not better.>>

You're just deluding yourself, Kramer.  Sure gov't opened the path, but "Barney Frank made me do it" is no excuse.  American business has to shoulder the blame for their myriad of bad decisions.  It's like blaming God for giving Hitler a free will.  Even though bankers COULD make improvident loans, there is no reason why they DID make them.  They made them, they enriched themselves for making them, and they crashed the economy.  You just don't WANT to see it.

[Kramer]

<<now we are getting some place -- in reality the government intervtion by people like Barney Skank and other Democrats and a few Republicans caused the financial crises and the government is currently making things worse not better.>>

You're just deluding yourself, Kramer.  Sure gov't opened the path, but "Barney Frank made me do it" is no excuse.  American business has to shoulder the blame for their myriad of bad decisions.  It's like blaming God for giving Hitler a free will.  Even though bankers COULD make improvident loans, there is no reason why they DID make them.  They made them, they enriched themselves for making them, and they crashed the economy.  You just don't WANT to see it.

if there was not a pact or connection or conspiracy between the US government and the bad people then why aren't any bad people in jail?

[Michael Tee]

<<if there was not a pact or connection or conspiracy between the US government and the bad people then why aren't any bad people in jail?>>

What's Bernie Madoff, one of the good people?

Besides, you are assuming that the disasters resulted from criminal actions rather than simply poor judgment.  It's not criminal to make cars that nobody wants to buy and it's not criminal to make loans that nobody can pay back  Greed and stupidity don't always carry jail sentences attached to them.

[Kramer]

<<if there was not a pact or connection or conspiracy between the US government and the bad people then why aren't any bad people in jail?>>

What's Bernie Madoff, one of the good people?

Besides, you are assuming that the disasters resulted from criminal actions rather than simply poor judgment.  It's not criminal to make cars that nobody wants to buy and it's not criminal to make loans that nobody can pay back  Greed and stupidity don't always carry jail sentences attached to them.

I didn't know that Bernie all by himself created our financial crises. I wonder how many politician campaigns old Bernie donated money to? Look that up if it's even possible. poor judgment is what you get when you elect inferior people with bad character to high office.

[Michael Tee]

<<I didn't know that Bernie all by himself created our financial crises. >>

Never said that he did.

<<I wonder how many politician campaigns old Bernie donated money to? Look that up if it's even possible.>>

I'd be amazed if he didn't.  That is why we have corrupt politicians, lax campaign contribution laws.

<< poor judgment is what you get when you elect inferior people with bad character to high office.>>

That's true enough, but it was poor judgment in the unelected business community that fucked up your economy.

[Xavier_Onassis]

When Phil Gramm lifted the restrictions on trading derivatives, that set the stage for an assortment of  loan arrangers to package loans and peddle what were actually NINJA (No Job, No Income) loans falsely rated AAA, when they should have been rated ZZZ. THey got big commissions and eventually the loans went into default. And No, Barney Frank did not make anyone offer or accept these loans.

I do not think Kramer is any sort of an economist. He just regurgitates what he hears and reads in the Faux and Dittohead press.