Author Topic: Peggy Noonan pretty much hits the nail on the head  (Read 3410 times)

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Christians4LessGvt

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Peggy Noonan pretty much hits the nail on the head
« on: April 30, 2010, 05:48:50 PM »


The Big Alienation
Uncontrolled borders and Washington's lack of self-control

MAY 1, 2010

By PEGGY NOONAN

We are at a remarkable moment. We have an open, 2,000-mile border to our south, and the entity with the power to enforce the law and impose safety and order will not do it. Wall Street collapsed, taking Main Street's money with it, and the government can't really figure out what to do about it because the government itself was deeply implicated in the crash, and both political parties are full of people whose political careers have been made possible by Wall Street contributions. Meanwhile we pass huge laws, bills so comprehensive, omnibus and transformative that no one knows what's in them and no one?literally, no one?knows how exactly they will be executed or interpreted. Citizens search for new laws online, pore over them at night, and come away knowing no more than they did before they typed "dot-gov."

It is not that no one's in control. Washington is full of people who insist they're in control and who go to great lengths to display their power. It's that no one takes responsibility and authority. Washington daily delivers to the people two stark and utterly conflicting messages: "We control everything" and "You're on your own."

All this contributes to a deep and growing alienation between the people of America and the government of America in Washington.

This is not the old, conservative and long-lampooned "I don't trust gummint" attitude of the 1950s, '60s and '70s. It's something new, or rather something so much more broadly and fully evolved that it constitutes something new. The right never trusted the government, but now the middle doesn't. I asked a campaigner for Hillary Clinton recently where her sturdy, pantsuited supporters had gone. They didn't seem part of the Obama brigades. "Some of them are at the tea party," she said.

None of this happened overnight. It is, most recently, the result of two wars that were supposed to be cakewalks, Katrina, the crash, and the phenomenon of a federal government that seemed less and less competent attempting to do more and more by passing bigger and bigger laws.

Add to this states on the verge of bankruptcy, the looming debt crisis of the federal government, the likelihood of ever-rising taxes. Shake it all together, and you have the makings of the big alienation. Alienation is often followed by full-blown antagonism, and antagonism by breakage.

Which brings us to Arizona and its much-criticized attempt to institute a law aimed at controlling its own border with Mexico. It is doing this because the federal government won't, and because Arizonans have a crisis on their hands, areas on the border where criminal behavior flourishes, where there have been kidnappings, murders and gang violence. If the law is abusive, it will be determined quickly enough, in the courts. In keeping with recent tradition, they were reading parts of the law aloud on cable the other night, with bright and sincere people completely disagreeing on the meaning of the words they were reading. No one knows how the law will be executed or interpreted.

Every state and region has its own facts and experience. In New York, legal and illegal immigrants keep the city running: They work hard jobs with brutal hours, rip off no one on Wall Street, and do not crash the economy. They are generally considered among the good guys. I'm not sure New Yorkers can fairly judge the situation in Arizona, nor Arizonans the situation in New York.

But the larger point is that Arizona is moving forward because the government in Washington has completely abdicated its responsibility. For 10 years?at least?through two administrations, Washington deliberately did nothing to ease the crisis on the borders because politicians calculated that an air of mounting crisis would spur mounting support for what Washington thought was appropriate reform?i.e., reform that would help the Democratic and Republican parties.

Both parties resemble Gordon Brown, who is about to lose the prime ministership of Britain. On the campaign trail this week, he was famously questioned by a party voter about his stand on immigration. He gave her the verbal runaround, all boilerplate and shrugs, and later complained to an aide, on an open mic, that he'd been forced into conversation with that "bigoted woman."

He really thought she was a bigot. Because she asked about immigration. Which is, to him, a sign of at least latent racism.

The establishments of the American political parties, and the media, are full of people who think concern about illegal immigration is a mark of racism. If you were Freud you might say, "How odd that's where their minds so quickly go, how strange they're so eager to point an accusing finger. Could they be projecting onto others their own, heavily defended-against inner emotions?" But let's not do Freud, he's too interesting. Maybe they're just smug and sanctimonious.

The American president has the power to control America's borders if he wants to, but George W. Bush and Barack Obama did not and do not want to, and for the same reason, and we all know what it is. The fastest-growing demographic in America is the Hispanic vote, and if either party cracks down on illegal immigration, it risks losing that vote for generations.

But while the Democrats worry about the prospects of the Democrats and the Republicans about the well-being of the Republicans, who worries about America?

No one. Which the American people have noticed, and which adds to the dangerous alienation?actually it's at the heart of the alienation?of the age.

In the past four years, I have argued in this space that nothing can or should be done, no new federal law passed, until the border itself is secure. That is the predicate, the commonsense first step. Once existing laws are enforced and the border made peaceful, everyone in the country will be able to breathe easier and consider, without an air of clamor and crisis, what should be done next. What might that be? How about relax, see where we are, and absorb. Pass a small, clear law?say, one granting citizenship to all who serve two years in the armed forces?and then go have a Coke. Not everything has to be settled right away. Only controlling the border has to be settled right away.
Instead, our national establishments deliberately allow the crisis to grow and fester, ignoring public unrest and amusing themselves by damning anyone's attempt to deal with the problem they fear to address.

Why does the federal government do this? Because so many within it are stupid and unimaginative and don't trust the American people. Which of course the American people have noticed.

If the federal government and our political parties were imaginative, they would understand that it is actually in their interests to restore peace and order to the border. It would be a way of demonstrating that our government is still capable of functioning, that it is still to some degree connected to the people's will, that it has the broader interests of the country in mind.

The American people fear they are losing their place and authority in the daily, unwinding drama of American history. They feel increasingly alienated from their government. And alienation, again, is often followed by deep animosity, and animosity by the breaking up of things. If our leaders were farsighted not only for themselves but for the country, they would fix the border.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704302304575214613784530750.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_opinion
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Plane

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Re: Peggy Noonan pretty much hits the nail on the head
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2010, 11:39:57 PM »
 I asked a campaigner for Hillary Clinton recently where her sturdy, pantsuited supporters had gone. They didn't seem part of the Obama brigades. "Some of them are at the tea party," she said.
[][][][][][][][]


      A trend?

Universe Prince

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Re: Peggy Noonan pretty much hits the nail on the head
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2010, 11:47:11 PM »
Quote

No one knows how the law will be executed or interpreted.


Really? 'Cause someone just told me that everyone knows exactly how the law will be executed and interpreted.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Michael Tee

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Re: Peggy Noonan pretty much hits the nail on the head
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2010, 05:41:34 PM »

<<Which brings us to Arizona and its much-criticized attempt to institute a law aimed at controlling its own border with Mexico. It is doing this because the federal government won't, and because Arizonans have a crisis on their hands, areas on the border where criminal behavior flourishes, where there have been kidnappings, murders and gang violence.>>

Well, here's a really radical idea for those fucking morons: how about concentrating your law-enforcement activities on the prosecution of kidnappers, murderers and violent gangs?  How about safer streets, more patrols?  More jails, more courts, more police?  How do police fight kidnapping, murder and gang violence where there aren't any illegal immigrants to blame it all on?  Or was America free of such ugly crimes before the Mexicans moved in and showed them how it was done?

BT

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Re: Peggy Noonan pretty much hits the nail on the head
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2010, 08:27:10 PM »
If immigration without going through the proper channels is considered illegal, then those laws need to be enforced. And one way to enforce those laws is when dealing with apprehended persons, verify their residency status.

End of story.

The alternative is to deregulate immigration and let anyone who wants in, in.

I don't really see another way to consistently apply the law.

Michael Tee

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Re: Peggy Noonan pretty much hits the nail on the head
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2010, 09:42:54 PM »
<<If immigration without going through the proper channels is considered illegal, then those laws need to be enforced. And one way to enforce those laws is when dealing with apprehended persons, verify their residency status.

<<End of story. >>

That's outrageous.  Not only is it not the "end of story" it can't even be the beginning or middle of the story - - because it is not the business of the state to legislate the enforcement of federal laws.  It is not in their Constitutional mandate.

If they have problems with kidnappers, robbers, whatever - - they have a mandate to go after kidnappers and robbers, and no one will object to them fulfilling their mandate.  But they think, Oh these undocumented Mexicans are the robbers and the kidnappers?  Fuck that, they are then going after a profile - - undocumented Mexicans - - who as individual human beings with individual human rights may or may not be involved in robberies or kidnappings at all. 

The state of AZ has no mandate to enforce immigration law and they can't do an end run around the Constitution by claiming that their enforcement (by new legislation) of immigration law is really an anti-kidnapping and/or anti-robbery measure, whatever the stats are on those crimes.  Those same stats could probably justify racist concentration on Indians or blacks.   

The legislation is clearly racist in intent and thankfully has been recognized as such by most sane and normal observers.  It will not stand.

Amianthus

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Re: Peggy Noonan pretty much hits the nail on the head
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2010, 09:54:27 PM »
The state of AZ has no mandate to enforce immigration law and they can't do an end run around the Constitution by claiming that their enforcement (by new legislation) of immigration law is really an anti-kidnapping and/or anti-robbery measure, whatever the stats are on those crimes.  Those same stats could probably justify racist concentration on Indians or blacks.   

Actually, under the new law, the state would not be enforcing immigration laws - they are just mandated to hand over suspected illegal aliens to ICE, the Federal Police charged with handling illegal immigration.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: Peggy Noonan pretty much hits the nail on the head
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2010, 10:02:01 PM »
<<Actually, under the new law, the state would not be enforcing immigration laws - they are just mandated to hand over suspected illegal aliens to ICE, the Federal Police charged with handling illegal immigration.>>

They were probably mandated to hand over suspected illegal immigrants to the Feds before the new law anyway.  What the new law does is encourage investigation of possible illegal immigration status in a widely expanded range of permissible police stops in which it was previously not statutorily mandated to investigate status in the course of the police stop.

It is the law's effect on police enforcement discretion that makes it noxious.  A cop who may not be sufficiently interested in a broken tail-light to make a stop on that basis now has a reason to make the stop if it will provide him with the opportunity to investigate driver status, giving racist cops the tool they needed but were previously lacking for the enforcement of the federal laws of immigration and status.  Thus under the guise of pursuing broken tail-lights, they now have a statutory reason to infringe upon what is really the Fed's responsibility to enforce.

BT

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Re: Peggy Noonan pretty much hits the nail on the head
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2010, 10:17:32 PM »
Quote
A cop who may not be sufficiently interested in a broken tail-light to make a stop on that basis now has a reason to make the stop if it will provide him with the opportunity to investigate driver status, giving racist cops the tool they needed but were previously lacking for the enforcement of the federal laws of immigration and status.  Thus under the guise of pursuing broken tail-lights, they now have a statutory reason to infringe upon what is really the Fed's responsibility to enforce.

You really are clueless. Broken tail lights are like scratch off lottery tickets to cops. Never know what the prize will be. DUI, Drugs, Illegal weapons, top 10 most wanted on the FBI, or a Timothy McVeigh.

If they were racial harassing they would pull them over and break the tail light on the way to the drivers window.



Michael Tee

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Re: Peggy Noonan pretty much hits the nail on the head
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2010, 10:59:34 PM »
<<You really are clueless. Broken tail lights are like scratch off lottery tickets to cops. Never know what the prize will be. DUI, Drugs, Illegal weapons, top 10 most wanted on the FBI, or a Timothy McVeigh.>>

I'm not exactly clueless and I know a lot about broken tail lights and cops.  I know about the paperwork they have to fill out for even a broken tail-light stop.  I will maintain that considerable discretion is exercised by cops on any traffic stop and they do NOT pull over every guy with a broken tail-light or other technical cause for a stop.

<<If they were racial harassing they would pull them over and break the tail light on the way to the drivers window.>>

That would be an extremely foolish risk to take for a very small gain.  Maybe in an ideal world where there was a sufficient shortage of broken tail-lights to frustrate racist cops, your scenario might make a little bit of sense, but in the real world there are enough real broken tail lights, erratic driving, unsafe lane changes, partially obscured licence plates, etc., etc., etc. to give any racist cop the excuse he needs to harass his own self-imposed daily quota of visible minority drivers or passengers, no matter how high he sets it.

Plane

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Re: Peggy Noonan pretty much hits the nail on the head
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2010, 11:05:46 PM »
"....... but in the real world there are enough real broken tail lights, erratic driving, unsafe lane changes, partially obscured licence plates, etc., etc., etc. to give any racist cop the excuse he needs to harass his own self-imposed daily quota of visible minority drivers or passengers, no matter how high he sets it."


    So what , White guys are allowed to ride in decrepit cars?

BT

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Re: Peggy Noonan pretty much hits the nail on the head
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2010, 11:07:31 PM »
Quote
That would be an extremely foolish risk to take for a very small gain.

What does the racist cop care about risk. They have the power and their job is to keep the minority in their place. What are a few glass shards to the bigger picture.

That's the way it works, isn't it?


But what the hell, we'll call the cops racist whether they are or not. Doesn't matter if they are black, white or brown. They are racist and that is that. Because Mikey says so.



Michael Tee

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Re: Peggy Noonan pretty much hits the nail on the head
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2010, 12:10:57 AM »
<<So what , White guys are allowed to ride in decrepit cars?>>

Some can, some can't - - it's up to the cop's discretion.  I certainly wouldn't argue that no white guy was ever stopped for a broken tail-light.  But what are the odds of a white guy being stopped for a broken tail-light and what are the odds of a black guy being stopped for a broken tail-light?  My gut feeling, even allowing for the cops who don't want to stop a black guy for fear of a racial harassment suit, there are still more blacks than whites stopped for broken tail lights.

Michael Tee

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Re: Peggy Noonan pretty much hits the nail on the head
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2010, 12:24:08 AM »
<<What does the racist cop care about risk. They have the power and their job is to keep the minority in their place. What are a few glass shards to the bigger picture.>>

Well I beg to differ.  In the real world, even racist cops want to keep their jobs and realize the stupidity of getting nailed by a determined victim of their racist persecution.  Unless they've been living in a cave for the past 20 years, they've heard the story of the Rodney King beating and can understand how concerned bystanders with cellphone cameras or even camcorders can nail their fat pig ass to the wall at the least expected moment.  So they exercise a little caution, a little CYA, before acting out their racist shit.  Which is why the broken tail-light has become so iconic - - in the good old days they didn't need ANY excuse to stop and harass those black-assed motherfuckers.

<<That's the way it works, isn't it?>>  Sure, in your demented world of fantasy.  But not in the real world, I'm afraid.


<<But what the hell, we'll call the cops racist whether they are or not.>>

Absurd, right, because in post-racial America, there is no more racism and no more racist cops.  Only crazy liberals think that racism is still prevalent in America.   

<<Doesn't matter if they are black, white or brown. They are racist and that is that. Because Mikey says so. >>

Another brain-fart from planet BT in some far-off galaxy.  Not only is racism non-existent in a post-racial America, but it seems that it's impossible for blacks and browns, as well as whites, to be racist.  Their skin colour must somehow inoculate them against racism since birth.


BT

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Re: Peggy Noonan pretty much hits the nail on the head
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2010, 12:55:33 AM »
Quote
Well I beg to differ.  In the real world, even racist cops want to keep their jobs and realize the stupidity of getting nailed by a determined victim of their racist persecution.

Why would a racist cop be worried about losing their job. The power of racism is that it is institutionalized and that the racist cop has a network of management behind him that will cover up, minimize and negate any negative repercussions that could possibly arise from some minority standing tall for their civil rights.

Now you are on record as stating the law in Arizona was written by racist legislators with the intent of their will being carried out by racist law enforcement personnel which indicates to me that you agree that the whole power structure of Arizona has institutionalized the concept of keeping the brother down.