Author Topic: Huh? When Did This Happen?  (Read 1537 times)

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Michael Tee

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Huh? When Did This Happen?
« on: June 13, 2010, 12:32:35 PM »
A Ted Rall cartoon . . .

http://www.gocomics.com/tedrall/2010/06/10/

. . . indicates that the Supreme Court has ruled that cops don't have to read a suspect's Miranda rights any more.  This is HUGE!!!  Did it really happen?  When?

BT

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Re: Huh? When Did This Happen?
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2010, 01:33:45 PM »
No it didn't happen.

They still have to read them and you have to affirmatively claim miranda.


Universe Prince

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Re: Huh? When Did This Happen?
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2010, 01:46:48 PM »
What the Supreme Court ruled is that your right to remain silent does not mean that remaining silent is a clear expression of choosing to exercise the right to remain silent. Apparently now one has to say out loud something to the effect of "I choose to remain silent," or, "I choose to exercise my Miranda rights." It's a really stupid ruling, imo.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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Universe Prince

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Re: Huh? When Did This Happen?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2010, 02:03:32 PM »
Oops. I forgot, Michael Tee ignores my posts. Someone else tell him.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Plane

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Re: Huh? When Did This Happen?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2010, 03:30:18 PM »
A Ted Rall cartoon . . .

http://www.gocomics.com/tedrall/2010/06/10/

. . . indicates that the Supreme Court has ruled that cops don't have to read a suspect's Miranda rights any more.  This is HUGE!!!  Did it really happen?  When?


I am shocked , SHOCKED I SAY, to see  that Ted Rall is exaggerateing an issue.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Huh? When Did This Happen?
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2010, 09:25:09 PM »
I've actually gone one-on-one with Ted Rall. I e-mailed him once informing him of his flawed logic
and to my surprise I soon found myself in several back & forth exchanges about President Bush with Ted.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Kramer

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Re: Huh? When Did This Happen?
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2010, 09:48:27 PM »
I've actually gone one-on-one with Ted Rall. I e-mailed him once informing him of his flawed logic
and to my surprise I soon found myself in several back & forth exchanges about President Bush with Ted.

Did you get the strange feeling you were at 3DHS going back and forth (and getting no-where) with Mikey?

Plane

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Re: Huh? When Did This Happen?
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2010, 10:08:18 PM »
I've actually gone one-on-one with Ted Rall. I e-mailed him once informing him of his flawed logic
and to my surprise I soon found myself in several back & forth exchanges about President Bush with Ted.


Now I am impressed with Ted Rall.

Michael Tee

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Re: Huh? When Did This Happen?
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2010, 10:02:37 AM »
http://blog.lawinfo.com/2010/06/01/u-s-supreme-court-weakens-miranda-warning/

Here's the case.  It's huge.  If a suspect is read his Miranda rights, all the cops have to do is keep on questioning the guy (in this case, for almost three hours) and if he cracks once, they can use his words against him. 

This was the usual 5-4 split with Alito, Scalia, Roberts and that fucking moron who has no place at all on the Supreme Court bench, being joined as usual by the "moderate conservative" Kennedy to further erode the civil rights of America.

In order to convict this one guy, who was obviously guilty, the "conservatives" on the bench have handed the cops a tool which enables them to third-degree or browbeat the dumbest suspects until they confess.  Smarter crooks will know enough to say nothing but "I refuse to discuss this matter with you until I have consulted a lawyer," in answer to every question, while the real dumb schmucks will be too scared of mistakes to say anything, so the police will continue to fire questions at them for three, six, twelve or as many hours as it takes till they're caught in one moment of weakness and blurt out something better (in their case) left unsaid.

This is like TELLING the cops, give your suspect the third degree even if he doesn't want to talk to you.  Push the limits of the envelope, keep up the pressure, don't let Miranda stop you and eventually some of these bastards will confess.  Well, of course, some of "the bastards" will confess, but so will some of the dumb confused weak-minded but innocent schmucks who fall into their net.

So the metaphorical safeguard of the criminal law "better to let nine guilty men go free than to punish one innocent" has just been whittled down somewhat by your conservative court, who apparently upheld the Miranda warning's principle, but cut down somewhat on the scope of its application, denying its benefits to the dumbest section of the criminal trade; how relieving to know that they still believe that it's better to let five or six guilty men escape than to convict one innocent. 

BOTTOM LINE:  Expect more guilty men to be convicted, but also expect more innocent men to be convicted.  And, IMHO, that really sucks.

Amianthus

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Re: Huh? When Did This Happen?
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2010, 11:30:03 AM »
If a suspect is read his Miranda rights, all the cops have to do is keep on questioning the guy (in this case, for almost three hours) and if he cracks once, they can use his words against him. 

This has always been true.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: Huh? When Did This Happen?
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2010, 11:44:51 AM »
<<This has always been true.>>

I think if they violated Miranda rights by continuing to question the guy in the absence of counsel, they couldn't use the answers.

Amianthus

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Re: Huh? When Did This Happen?
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2010, 12:11:23 PM »
I think if they violated Miranda rights by continuing to question the guy in the absence of counsel, they couldn't use the answers.

You're confusing the right to remain silent with the right have counsel present. While both are told to suspects during arrest, they are separate. You can talk your head off, and request a lawyer, or remain silent and not request a lawyer. Or do both (remain silent and request a lawyer) which is probably the most prudent thing to do.

But police can continue to interrogate you - even if you've decided to remain silent - until you request a lawyer. Only after that point are they required to only ask questions in the presence of your attorney.

BTW, even if you request a lawyer, that does not mean that police cannot have further contact with you - it only restricts them from asking about the case without counsel present. They can chat about the weather, or ball scores, or whatever.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)