Author Topic: The Commies Finally Get It!  (Read 18792 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11153
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Commies Finally Get It!
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2010, 09:20:09 AM »
china`s main problem is getting it`s own people to buy
it`s own product. which the majority cannot afford.

that may be why China is about to reval their currency

i just hope when they do...that others will follow suit like Iraq
and/or Viet Nam because if they do I will be a multi-millionaire
that Michael Tee can fully demonize!  :D
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Commies Finally Get It!
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2010, 10:42:57 AM »
<<So with communism the success it is in China, when can we expect the hunger of the masses worldwide to disappear?>>

With an air freshener freshening my home in Toronto, when can we expect the rest of the world to smell nice too?  The answer to your question is, when they too abolish capitalism and adopt communism.

<<And was hunger unknown worldwide during the Soviet heyday.>>

To the great panic of the capitalist powers, it appeared that the Soviet system was going to appeal to all of the hungry and the oppressed of the world, so they financed Hitler, sicced him on the U.S.S.R. and hoped for the best.  Unfortunately their attack dog seemed to have a "mind" of its own and things did not work out as planned, but it did manage to wreak a lot of devastation on the U.S.S.R. anyway.

<<See you talk systemic and then you give examples of more topical applications, ad hoc if you will.>>

Not true.  I talk systemic within the national framework of those countries that have adopted communism, not worldwide.  Communism in China won't directly affect hunger in the Congo any more than an air freshener in my home will make yours smell any better.

<<Earlier i was the bad guy and you were the good guy, yet in the example of the person drowning, apparently i was the good guy and you were just a talker from the bleachers.>>

And yet thousands of people still drowned in that year.

<<How is communism prepared to handle famine? We have examples from the Soviets and the Chinese and they don't come out looking so rosy. My guess is the problem was with the management of the crisis.>>

You don't have to guess --  in both cases, any famine, if it existed, was caused by the sabotage of anti-communist small landholders ("kulaks") holding back their produce from the food commissars and murdering communist agents sent to collect the food.  This in fact was what made the liquidation of the small landholder peasant class an essential in both China and the U.S.S.R.  Their greed was starving the nation.

<<In another thread you applaud Chavez for encouraging local communes, much like the council Marxists we spoke of earlier, yet you deride the local efforts of a municipal food drive as not being systemic enough.>>

"Deride" is an unfair term.  Hunger in the Third World is not going to be solved by food drives in Georgia.  The same capitalist system that provides the bourgeoisie with the excess wealth that, as the spirit moves them, they can dispense on occasion in local "food drives" is exactly the system that keeps the Third World in poverty and deprivation for generation after generation.

<<See,  i think you really aren't as concerned about the hungry as you are of manipulating their suffering to your ideological advantage.>>

LOL.  The ideology was conceived as a response to the suffering of the hungry.  It did not exist independently of the problems that it is designed to relieve.  Without the suffering of the hungry and the oppressed, there would be no need for Communism in the first place.

<<Earlier you scoffed at my reference to an Army of one, totally misunderstanding my point.

<<The difference between my philosophy and yours is that you think a system has to be in place where everyone marches in lockstep and my philosophy is it doesn't take a politburo, or a village, it just takes one person to act and another human being or more's suffering might be eased.>>

The obvious answer to that is that individuals have been free to act charitably at all times and under all regimes, since the dawn of the human race and yet we have crushing problems of human misery growing as we speak and existing forever under the capitalist system.  Surely nothing else can better demonstrate the total failure of "Armies of One" than that. 

OTOH, the introduction of Communism in both Russia and China (and Cuba) had IMMEDIATE beneficial effects on literacy, health, general education, housing etc., effects which are still continuing in China and (despite the blockade) Cuba, whereas in Russia, the abolition of Communism had an immediate and continuing deleterious effect on health, longevity, education, etc.  The Russian people are worse off under capitalism and the Chinese and Cuban people better off under communism.  What more proof do you need?





kimba1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8030
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Commies Finally Get It!
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2010, 11:33:05 AM »
china better off?

you didn`t see the side news of the olympics . it shows how extreme the conditions just 2 block from the games. capitalism,communism,religion thier all things people in charge who like to force on the regular folks . the news show people being very devout about whatever religion or system thier under,I`m willing to bet it`s not that way. a backseat christian is alot more common that a supposed devout christian.
same with economic system and political parties

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16143
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: The Commies Finally Get It!
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2010, 11:51:00 AM »
china better off?

you didn`t see the side news of the olympics . it shows how extreme the conditions just 2 block from the games. capitalism,communism,religion thier all things people in charge who like to force on the regular folks . the news show people being very devout about whatever religion or system thier under,I`m willing to bet it`s not that way. a backseat christian is alot more common that a supposed devout christian.
same with economic system and political parties

Kimba gets a BINGO

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Commies Finally Get It!
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2010, 12:15:08 PM »
you didn`t see the side news of the olympics . it shows how extreme the conditions just 2 block from the games.

Kimba, that's just western propaganda, it's nothing that you can believe!

Trust Mikey - he's always right!
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11153
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Commies Finally Get It!
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2010, 12:45:14 PM »
The Russian people are worse off under capitalism and the
Chinese and Cuban people better off under communism. 
What more proof do you need?

Thats like saying Blacks were worse off in 1866
being Free than they were under Slavery in 1860.
Without a doubt probably true in many ways,
but really hogwash in the big picture.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Commies Finally Get It!
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2010, 01:39:22 PM »
china better off?

you didn`t see the side news of the olympics . it shows how extreme the conditions just 2 block from the games. capitalism,communism,religion thier all things people in charge who like to force on the regular folks . the news show people being very devout about whatever religion or system thier under,I`m willing to bet it`s not that way. a backseat christian is alot more common that a supposed devout christian.
same with economic system and political parties


Kimba gets a BINGO

 8)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Commies Finally Get It!
« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2010, 01:43:25 PM »
that may be why China is about to reval their currency

i just hope when they do...that others will follow suit like Iraq
and/or Viet Nam because if they do I will be a multi-millionaire
that Michael Tee can fully demonize!
==========================================

How many yuan are you holding? How much to you think the yuan would be worth if it were revalued?

Iraq's currency is unlikely to be revaluated upwards, as Iraq has very few exports beside oil, and the price of oil is not determined by Iraqis.

How many Vietnamese dongs do you have?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

kimba1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8030
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Commies Finally Get It!
« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2010, 01:46:49 PM »
LOL!!!

I have in my hand 100 yuan, a gift from my dad 10 years ago.

boy am i the wrong guy here.


Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11153
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Commies Finally Get It!
« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2010, 03:47:26 PM »
"How many yuan are you holding?"

None

"How much to you think the yuan would be worth if it were revalued?"

X0 I have no idea....I have not followed it to even make an educated guess.

Although I am no expert in currency exchange....
I do think there is some truth in the reasoning behind China
doing an RV is because they have this booming economy but their
people can't afford to buy anything. In some ways Iraq...who by
the way just signed some huge, huge deals with China...is similar.
Iraq is unique in that they are very wealthy in resources, they are
rebuilding, getting lots of new infrastructure, setting up banking
and other industries, but the Iraqi people cant afford to buy anything.

"Iraq's currency is unlikely to be revaluated upwards"

That's your opinion...and I have no problem with you having it.

"as Iraq has very few exports beside oil"

Neither does Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and the Emirates
but they are all quite wealthy and successful with
basically one export.

The Kuwaiti dinar fell drastically upon Saddam invading,
then after the rebuilding of the country and the oil was
up and running again, their currency regained it's original value.
An investor that spent $10 thousand dollars on Kuwaiti currency
a few years later...it was worth $3 million.

Of course no two scenarios are exactly 100% identical
but Iraq does have one of the largest oil deposits in the
world. Presently all oil-rich middle eastern currencies are
much much higher than the Iraqi Dinar. After a period of
stabilization, rebuilding, and ending of certain UN/IMF
sanctions that are still in place it is possible the
Iraqi dinar could return to valuations similar
to that which existed right before the first Gulf War.
Even if they return to half or a quarter of pre-Gulf War
values.....I have a huge return.

Iraq has at least 115 billion barrels of crude oil reserves.
Most of Iraq has not been geologically explored.
Crude oil in Iraq is "sweet light crude"..meaning it is very high quality.
Iraq is an extremely unique country because of it's resources.
Making a "ramp up" in many ways for Iraq a better possibility than other poor countries.

There is no doubt it is a long-shot, unconventional, not for
everybody investment, but it has very little risk and has
some home-run potential. Usually "home run" returns require
bigger type of risks...this one doesn't. Long term I have
confidence of a nice return, and a possibility of a huge return.
But ya never know...that's how investments work.

"and the price of oil is not determined by Iraqis"

It will be in part....and "oil price" is not set per-se by the Saudis or Kuwaitis either.

"How many Vietnamese dongs do you have?"

Wow XO...getting kind of personal no?
How much do you have in your savings account?
LOL
But ok I'll bite....
I have 10 million Vietnamese Dong and 12 million Iraqi Dinar.



« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 03:53:45 PM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Commies Finally Get It!
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2010, 05:14:22 PM »
I have no money invested in currency, other than maybe 40 Argentine pesos, €10.00, and 10,000 Paraguayan Guaraníes. Not so much an investment as pocket change. My Guaraníes are worth $2.00 US.

Have the Kuwaitis, Saudis, Emiris or Qataris ever revalued their currency? I don't think they have. Oil is not a blessing so much as it is a curse. Would Iraq be the bombed-out shambles it is today if it had only as much oil as Syria? I think not. I would not count on a revaluation.

China's case is specialand unique, because China has a nearly inexhaustable source of cheap labor. If there is demand, there will be money to build a factory and to import cheap labor from some poor place in the hinterland, and it requires no investment, as drilling for oil does. Nor is any foreign source needed to cause all those peasants to come to wherever the city is in which that new factory is located.

The value of the yuan has been deliberately kept low to make Chinese products cheap. China feeds itself, and food prices are very low. I am told that a good Chinese meal can cost something like 40¢ in Hong Kong, and certainly less in the backlands where the new factories are.

Vietnam, I know nothing about, but it is a lot poorer than China, and the economy is growing at a lower rate.

Good luck with your dongs and dinars, but I'd invest in something more like Matthews India Fund. Currency speculation is like commodities and options: most people lose money at it, and it requires a lot of expertise.


"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11153
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Commies Finally Get It!
« Reply #41 on: June 21, 2010, 06:19:53 PM »
i have a relatively small amount of money invested in dong and dinar
i am not worried

I agree normal currency trading is high risk
but these particular investments are very low risk...with potential huge returns
it's like buying a lotto ticket but you can get almost all your money back if you don't win

yes kuwait has rv'd

saying oil is a curse...is like saying beauty is a curse
yeah hot chicks get bothered by men a lot
but i doubt they would prefer being ugly


"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

kimba1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8030
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Commies Finally Get It!
« Reply #42 on: June 21, 2010, 06:51:40 PM »
China has a nearly inexhaustable source of cheap labor

that term is too broad.
in terms of getting unskilled workers,yes
but in terms of making ipohones,no.

you hear about the large amount of highly educated kids in china, but in terms of the needs of china thiers is simply not enough getting cranked out to meet the demands. the shortage is so huge that the existing workforce can handle the workload. it`s so overwelming they commit suicides despite the increased wages

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Commies Finally Get It!
« Reply #43 on: June 21, 2010, 11:50:37 PM »
<<Thats like saying Blacks were worse off in 1866
being Free than they were under Slavery in 1860.>>

Nobody would ever make that claim.  Obviously any kind of freedom is better than any kind of slavery.

<<Without a doubt probably true in many ways,
but really hogwash in the big picture.>>

The big picture is that the Soviet economy was outperforming all capitalist economies until the German invasion of 1941, then the country was ravaged and then  . . .  then, post-war, I just don't know what happened to them.  And I don't think you know either.

The big picture is that the Chinese people are infinitely better off under communism than they ever were under capitalism.

The big picture is that the Russian people are a hell of a lot worse off after the abolition of communism almost 20  years ago than they were under communism.

THAT is the big picture.  Inventing absurd quotes about slavery that no black man would ever agree with does not get you out of the problem that the historical facts show the need for communism and the disadvantages of capitalism, maybe not in terms of innovation and technology, but where it really counts - - in the distribution of the basic necessities of life to the entire population.

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Commies Finally Get It!
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2010, 01:11:50 AM »
<<Thats like saying Blacks were worse off in 1866
being Free than they were under Slavery in 1860.>>

Nobody would ever make that claim.  Obviously any kind of freedom is better than any kind of slavery.



And yet there you go defending Communism as if it was not.