The Summer of Love

[Michael Tee]

With all due respect, a country built on the genocide of the American Indians and the enslavement and exploitation of black men, women and children is not and never will be "the greatest country on earth."  Nobody denies that America has done some good in the world (over-exaggerated beyond all rational boundaries by their own non-stop bragging and complete ignorance of the accomplishments of the rest of the world) but the amount of good they have done is totally overbalanced by the amount of evil, not only in the past, but in the immediate present.  My own advice to Americans is, stop tooting your own horn because nobody believes in your self-serving bullshit any more, and wake up to all the pain and suffering your policies are causing not only all over the world, but also to your own people.  And have a nice vacation.

[sirs]

Apparently Tee missed the part where I've conceded that we're not a perfect country, nor ever claimed it to be.  Not surprising though.  Neither is his validating my point about trying to pick only the worse blips in our country's history and make them out as standard life currently still practiced.  I do admire the grotesque anti-American consistency

[_JS]

I get sick to death of hearing the same trite cliches over and over again.

"We're the most charitable country on earth."

I don't care. Nor I do care about your emotions Sirs. I fully acknowledge that there are pros and cons to any economic system. There were positive economic aspects to feudalism.

As for charity...Al Capone built soup kitchens. Iran is building many hospitals and schools in both Iraq and Afghanistan, I'm guessing that you aren't acknowledging their contributions to either of those rebuilding efforts.

What I'm talking about is beyond the scope of just the United States. I'm talking about the entire world and a system that will ensure that the failures of capitalism do not continue ad infinitum. Regardless of whether Americans or Europeans can afford nice vacations or not.

[_JS]

Capitalism fails on every level. It is inhumane. It is corrupt. It does not prevent war and bring people together - but instead promotes war to build mercantilism and tears people apart with alienation and class warfare. It promotes the elite and a Randian-style justification of egocentric, self-destructive psychoses. At the end of the day, we can take heart that capitalism is its own worst enemy. In this case the piranhas eat one another.

  

From what sort of nation does most foreign aid and charitable contribution come?

Who cares?

Why validate a system where mosquito nets aren't given to every family in that region automatically? Why should any human being go hungry in a world where food is in such abundance, so much so that in many western countries farmers are paid to NOT farm or limit their farming.

I think not. Your objections are narrowly framed in a myopic context. Capitalism is very limited.

[sirs]

What I'm talking about is beyond the scope of just the United States. I'm talking about the entire world and a system that will ensure that the failures of capitalism do not continue ad infinitum. Regardless of whether Americans or Europeans can afford nice vacations or not.

So am I Js, so am I.  Only my focus is to embrace freedom, individual responsibility, and that which made us great, and refining it as needed, regardless of whether all Americans or Europeans are saddled with mediocre healthcare

[_JS]

What I'm talking about is beyond the scope of just the United States. I'm talking about the entire world and a system that will ensure that the failures of capitalism do not continue ad infinitum. Regardless of whether Americans or Europeans can afford nice vacations or not.

So am I Js, so am I.  Only my focus is to embrace freedom, individual responsibility, and that which made us great, and refining it as needed, regardless of whether all Americans or Europeans are saddled with mediocre healthcare

Irrelevant, meaningless drivel.

[sirs]

Ironic, isn't it

[_JS]

I don't see any irony.

I often find myself wondering how one exists in such a myopic little world.

Does it get cramped in there?

[sirs]

Of course you wouldn't.  All that sophistry and platitudes on the evils of capitalism.....hey, that's all true.  Anything to the contrary....well, that's just irrelevant, meaningless drivel.

My world of Capitalism and the greatness of freedom is a mighty fine, BTW.  So glad you could be a part of it, and have the freedom to disparage it at will.  It's also what makes this country great

[_JS]

Of course you wouldn't.  All that sophistry and platitudes on the evils of capitalism.....hey, that's all true.  Anything to the contrary....well, that's just irrelevant, meaningless drivel.

My world of Capitalism and the greatness of freedom is a mighty fine, BTW.  So glad you could be a part of it, and have the freedom to disparage it at will.  It's also what makes this country great

What was meaningless drivel was your post:

So am I Js, so am I[talking about the entire world].  Only my focus is to embrace freedom, individual responsibility, and that which made us great, and refining it as needed, regardless of whether all Americans or Europeans are saddled with mediocre healthcare

Notice you're talking about the "entire world" but you mention only Americans and Europeans. Otherwise you mention typical catch phrases - "freedom," "individual responsibility," for which you provide no context and have no frame of reference in this entire conversation.

No one has disparaged freedom or individual responsibility. Far from it. If anything, I'm very much supporting both concepts. Yet, no one took responsibility for the people of Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, etc. who were tortured, beaten, murdered. Least of all, no one responsible in this nation. Ford Motor Company sure as hell never took responsibility for their role.

For you, these things are "just mistakes." Oops. Oh well, massacres just happen. Genocides occur. Hell, better them than us, right? After all, "we're the most charitable people on Earth!" After we've approved of the Indonesian genocide we'll be sure and send some care packages.

Yep. I'm well versed on your "capitalism and freedom" speeches.

[sirs]

Of course you wouldn't.  All that sophistry and platitudes on the evils of capitalism.....hey, that's all true.  Anything to the contrary....well, that's just irrelevant, meaningless drivel.

My world of Capitalism and the greatness of freedom is a mighty fine, BTW.  So glad you could be a part of it, and have the freedom to disparage it at will.  It's also what makes this country great

What was meaningless drivel was your post

And just as much drivel has been your soapbox on how evil Capitalism is supposed to be

[Plane]

With all due respect, a country built on the genocide of the American Indians and the enslavement and exploitation of black men, women and children is not and never will be "the greatest country on earth."  Nobody denies that America has done some good in the world (over-exaggerated beyond all rational boundaries by their own non-stop bragging and complete ignorance of the accomplishments of the rest of the world) but the amount of good they have done is totally overbalanced by the amount of evil, not only in the past, but in the immediate present.  My own advice to Americans is, stop tooting your own horn because nobody believes in your self-serving bullshit any more, and wake up to all the pain and suffering your policies are causing not only all over the world, but also to your own people.  And have a nice vacation.

List the countrys that you consider better and I will seek the listing of their crimes streaching back ten generations.There is not a blameless nation nor one that has done so much improvement without outside help. Japan improved pretty fast , but the US was helping while they were improveing.

The USA is the greatest in several diffrent measures includeing being the most good for other countrys.

For instance combine all of the altruism of the past two hundred years from all of the world outside the US and compare it to the altruism of the US over the same period. The US altruism is 248% greater than the altruism of the rest of the world for the past two hundred years.

[Plane]

I get sick to death of hearing the same trite cliches over and over again.

"We're the most charitable country on earth."

I don't care. Nor I do care about your emotions Sirs. I fully acknowledge that there are pros and cons to any economic system. There were positive economic aspects to feudalism.

As for charity...Al Capone built soup kitchens. Iran is building many hospitals and schools in both Iraq and Afghanistan, I'm guessing that you aren't acknowledging their contributions to either of those rebuilding efforts.

What I'm talking about is beyond the scope of just the United States. I'm talking about the entire world and a system that will ensure that the failures of capitalism do not continue ad infinitum. Regardless of whether Americans or Europeans can afford nice vacations or not.

Capitolism is not failing in any respect , except in respects that every alternitive is also failing.

[Michael Tee]

<<List the countrys that you consider better . . . >>

That's about the most juvenile challenge I could think of.  Nobody's perfect.  What really rankles my ass is sirs' talking out of two sides of his mouth at the same time, "the U.S. is the greatest country on earth" and "we're not perfect."  The "we're not perfect" is the real bullshit item - - of course NOBODY is perfect, so he gives away nothing by admitting it, but thinks that saying it gives him immunity from all criticisms of the U.S.A.

I don't see this as a math exam, where the number of points A scores can be compared to B and so on. 

Which country is presently causing more damage, pain and suffering to human beings all over the planet?  None.  This negates whatever "foreign aid" is given out by the U.S. and often even the foreign aid is tainted by ridiculous self-defeating provisions put into the package by religious and political ideologues.

Which country has happier people?  Lots, every time some poll attempts to measure happiness.

Which country has better medical care?  Lots.

Which country won WWII?  The U.S.S.R. in Europe, the U.S.A. in the Pacific

Which country promoted WWII by various acts and omissions including support of Hitler by wealthy and influential Americans such as Charles Lindbergh and Henry Ford, by refusing France's plea for help in the spring of 1940, by freezing Spanish Loyalist gold reserves during the Spanish Civil War

Every one of the above statements can spawn counter-arguments that will or could take up 100 newsgroups like this one.  What's the point of designating one country "better" or worse than any other?

It's a pure distraction.  Childish and juvenile in the extreme - - raising a question that can never be answered as an alternative to discussing some very real and pressing instances of gross misconduct occurring as we speak and continuing indefinitely into the future unless citizens demand that it stop immediately and find an effective way of making their demands felt in a one-party state that runs fake "elections" between candidates who argue whether the American military should be more engaged in Afghanistan than Iraq or vice versa and at the same time make it all too clear that neither one of them will ever completely disengage from either country.

[sirs]

<<List the countrys that you consider better . . . >>

That's about the most juvenile challenge I could think of.  Nobody's perfect.  What really rankles my ass is sirs' talking out of two sides of his mouth at the same time, "the U.S. is the greatest country on earth" and "we're not perfect."  The "we're not perfect" is the real bullshit item - - of course NOBODY is perfect, so he gives away nothing by admitting it, but thinks that saying it gives him immunity from all criticisms of the U.S.A.

What a complete piece AMBE.  A) I don't expect immunity from anything  B) I don't expect immunity from criticism of the U.S. in the those areas it has fallen off the wagon, and C) You validate my original point consistently by hyperbolically highlighting only the most egregious points in U.S. history, with the transparent implication that's current SOP, and poo poo any and everything good that this country has brought about for the globe

Thank you very much, I might add