Author Topic: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain  (Read 30763 times)

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Universe Prince

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #75 on: October 22, 2007, 03:18:18 AM »

If they all tuned themselves in and waited co-operatively in the lobbys of the Immagration  offices  there would be no wa to accomadate them ,nor twenty percent of them.


Probably so. But I find hard to believe your notion that a strike of all illegal immigrants would somehow result in a massive change of policy and public opinion in favor of the immigrants.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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sirs

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #76 on: October 22, 2007, 03:18:30 AM »
Quote
I said rather specifically that your arguments indicated that you opposed allowing people to immigrate....
Now, let's finish that sentence for accuracy now; ....opposed to allowing people to immigrate ILLEGALLY  There, that puts things in a more accurate portrayal of my position

Yes, Sirs, we all get that you are opposed to illegal immigration. I, Universe Prince, do hereby officially acknowledge that Sirs is not opposed to legal immigration, only to illegal immigration.

Thank you.  We may now close the book, and return to our regularly scheduled program
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #77 on: October 22, 2007, 03:32:40 AM »

If they all tuned themselves in and waited co-operatively in the lobbys of the Immagration  offices  there would be no wa to accomadate them ,nor twenty percent of them.


Probably so. But I find hard to believe your notion that a strike of all illegal immigrants would somehow result in a massive change of policy and public opinion in favor of the immigrants.

If it wouldn't , then we don't reallly need the work they are doing .

Universe Prince

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #78 on: October 22, 2007, 03:53:02 AM »

Quote
I said rather specifically that your arguments indicated that you opposed allowing people to immigrate....
Now, let's finish that sentence for accuracy now; ....opposed to allowing people to immigrate ILLEGALLY  There, that puts things in a more accurate portrayal of my position

Yes, Sirs, we all get that you are opposed to illegal immigration. I, Universe Prince, do hereby officially acknowledge that Sirs is not opposed to legal immigration, only to illegal immigration.

Thank you.  We may now close the book, and return to our regularly scheduled program


So, you're not going to answer the questions. Okay. This makes me wonder why you do not answer then questions. I've given you the perfect opportunity to prove me wrong, and you refuse to take it. Your statements are obviously contradictory, and you refuse to explain or clarify, choosing instead to oversimplify and make silly repetitions. Huh. What should one deduce from that? I guess you were simply out of your depth.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Universe Prince

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #79 on: October 22, 2007, 03:57:23 AM »

Quote
But I find hard to believe your notion that a strike of all illegal immigrants would somehow result in a massive change of policy and public opinion in favor of the immigrants.

If it wouldn't , then we don't reallly need the work they are doing .


You don't see how a strike of that nature might have a negative effect on public opinion and political policy? Seems to me it would run the risk of making a lot of people extremely angry and raise the rhetorical specter of being "held hostage" by illegal immigrants. Feel free to explain why I'm being too cynical.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

sirs

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #80 on: October 22, 2007, 04:08:57 AM »
Yes, Sirs, we all get that you are opposed to illegal immigration. I, Universe Prince, do hereby officially acknowledge that Sirs is not opposed to legal immigration, only to illegal immigration.

Thank you.  We may now close the book, and return to our regularly scheduled program

So, you're not going to answer the questions. Okay. This makes me wonder why you do not answer then questions.

Because the point has been made and validated by Prince; sirs does support immigration to this country, just not to the mass unfettered amounts, in 1 fell swoop, that Prince does
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Universe Prince

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #81 on: October 22, 2007, 04:25:02 AM »

Because the point has been made and validated by Prince; sirs does support immigration to this country, just not to the mass unfettered amounts, in 1 fell swoop, that Prince does


That was never in question and has almost nothing to do with the questions I asked.

Yes, Sirs, you support immigration, immigration for the few, immigration onerously restricted to the point that it harmfully interferes with trade and the economic health of both the U.S. and other countries, immigration that is in fact restricted with the intent to keep most potential immigrants out of the country, but yes, you do support immigration. And you're still ignoring the questions. I guess I was wrong about you being out of your depth. You were, apparently, all the way over in the wading pool.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 04:26:43 AM by Universe Prince »
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

sirs

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #82 on: October 22, 2007, 04:48:55 AM »

Because the point has been made and validated by Prince; sirs does support immigration to this country, just not to the mass unfettered amounts, in 1 fell swoop, that Prince does

That was never in question and has almost nothing to do with the questions I asked.  Yes, Sirs, you support immigration, immigration for the few,

wrong....for the LEGAL



immigration onerously restricted to the point that it harmfully interferes with trade and the economic health of both the U.S. and other countries,

wrong, that imparts repercussions upon this country, much more harmful, from the economy, to healthcare, to taxes, to crime, all the way to national security



immigration that is in fact restricted with the intent to keep most potential immigrants out of the country,

NOT if they come in LEGALLY



but yes, you do support immigration.

Thank you.  I'm glad we do have that cleared up now.


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Universe Prince

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #83 on: October 22, 2007, 07:32:31 AM »

Quote
but yes, you do support immigration.

Thank you.  I'm glad we do have that cleared up now.


I'm not sure what part of "NO ONE said you opposed legal immigration" you have trouble understanding. But then, I am also still unclear as to why you deny that you want to restrict immigration. You say you have no problem with how many immigrants come in, yet you complain that the number of immigrants would be too many. You say you're not against legal immigration, but you insist that allowing more legal immigration would be detrimental. You complain that increased immigration would result in larger federal government, but you want the federal government to do more to restrict immigration. No portion of your position on immigration is not contradictory, and yet you refuse to explain your position. Worse yet, you seem to think that restricting immigration to prevent the entry of the immigrants whom you insist would destroy the country is somehow not keeping people out of the country. Your position, as you present it, has to be the most irrational, nonsensical position on immigration I have ever seen.

And trying to discuss it with you is worse. Apparently, there are zero logical or rational deductions to be made from your comments because whatever the logical or rational deduction is, you claim the opposite is true. You complain about what would happen if immigration was less restricted, but if I say you want restricted immigration, you insist that I'm wrong because you support immigration. You complain that we cannot afford to have too many immigrants enter the country, so if I say you want to keep people out, you then claim you don't have a issue with how many people immigrate to the U.S. Not even Lewis Carroll could keep up with such complete nonsense.

But in trying to understand, I asked questions anyway. Three times. And you've refused to answer apparently because you've claimed victory over something that was never in question.

I'm thinking this must be what dropping acid is like.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

_JS

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #84 on: October 22, 2007, 09:33:44 AM »
I honestly doubt that Sirs understands the complexities and difficulties involved in people from certain countries becoming legal citizens of the United States. That people from some countries have a quicker process than people from other countries. That a father can become a legal citizen, but not have his family legally move into the United States for years, even two decades.

Yelling LEGAL IMMIGRATION! is just a way to hide and offer no solutions. Or if one truly understands it then it is something far more dubious.

The same people yelled LEGAL SEGREGATION! in the 50's or they winked right back when Barry Goldwater said that the Civil Rights Act was good, but not constitutional. Or it is the same people who yelled JEDEM DAS SEINE! in 1930's Germany. Both perfectly fine phrases for their time...for those who chose not to care about what they really meant.
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BT

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #85 on: October 22, 2007, 10:34:00 AM »
JS,

Are you saying that a sovereign state does not have the moral right and obligation to manage the flow of immigrants into their country?

And as a sidebar, depicting  those who have a differing viewpoint than you concerning  immigration as racists, segregationists and or nazi's is really beneath you.




_JS

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #86 on: October 22, 2007, 10:46:29 AM »
JS,

Are you saying that a sovereign state does not have the moral right and obligation to manage the flow of immigrants into their country?

A moral right and obligation to use social justice and social equality to regulate immigration? Yes, perhaps. But I don't think you can claim that is what we do, BT.

Quote
And as a sidebar, depicting  those who have a differing viewpoint than you concerning  immigration as racists, segregationists and or nazi's is really beneath you.

I would normally agree with you Bt. But that was before the Fascists were consulted (and defended!) for their constributions to this debate.
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BT

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #87 on: October 22, 2007, 10:52:31 AM »
Quote
A moral right and obligation to use social justice and social equality to regulate immigration? Yes, perhaps. But I don't think you can claim that is what we do, BT.

That wasn't the question.

Asked another way, is it morally defensible to manage the influx of legal immigrants into this country.


Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #88 on: October 22, 2007, 11:02:12 AM »


Rightists strengthen hold on Swiss Parliament

Oct 21, 2007

After a campaign troubled by violence and widely criticized as racist, Switzerland's far-right Swiss People's Party strengthened its position as the biggest single party in Parliament on Sunday, according to initial electoral projections.

The outcome seems unlikely to lead to any dramatic shifts in government or policies. As Pierre Weiss a candidate of the center-right Liberal Party, put it, "All of the main forces of yesterday will remain the main forces of tomorrow."

Still, he agreed with other analysts that the gains by the Swiss People's Party portended more of the polarization that Switzerland's previously placid politics has experienced in the past four years, straining its tradition of consensus and leaving cracks in its carefully nurtured image abroad as a bastion of tolerance and humanitarian values.

The Swiss People's Party, or SVP, which campaigned on an aggressively anti-immigrant ticket featuring posters that showed white sheep kicking a black sheep off the Swiss flag, received about 29 percent of the vote and 61 of the 200 seats in Parliament, projections showed, up from 27 percent and 55 seats in 2003. It was comfortably ahead of the Social Democratic Party, which dropped from 23 percent of the vote to 19 percent and was projected with 43 seats, as opposed to 52 in the most recent Parliament.

Among centrist parties, the projections showed the Free Democratic Party finishing with a smaller vote and 31 seats in Parliament, 5 fewer than last time, and the Christian Democrats also with 31 seats.

The result would still leave the Swiss People's Party dependent on the votes of centrist parties to get legislation through Parliament, said Bianca Rousselot, a political scientist at Gfs.Bern, who was monitoring the voting.

Rousselot said the result showed a shift to the right at the expense of the Social Democrats. "The SVP will feel it legitimizes their call for stricter policies on immigration and in foreign affairs," she said.

The Swiss People's Party's victory focused attention on the next round of political jousting over the makeup of the seven-seat Federal Council, which functions as Switzerland's cabinet and will be decided by a vote of Parliament on Dec. 12.

The party shook up Switzerland's normally placid politics by leveraging its gains in the last elections, in 2003, to demand a second seat in the Federal Council, jettisoning the "magic formula" that had dictated the distribution of seats among the four major parties since 1959.

It won the seat, which went to its leader, Christoph Blocher. Before the elections Sunday, Blocher caused a stir by expressing a preference for kicking out the Socialist Party and governing through a rightist alliance.

The Socialists, in turn, said they would vote against Blocher's returning to the Federal Council.

If Blocher, who now holds the position of justice minister, remains in the council, he is in line to become its vice chairman next year and its chairman, or Switzerland's president, in 2009. The position has a largely symbolic role, yet it raises the prospect that the job of representing Switzerland to the outside world would fall to a politician who is hostile to the European Union and at odds with Swiss traditions of openness.

The level of controversy surrounding Blocher's autocratic style has raised doubts that Parliament will back him for the post of vice chairman in December, automatically ruling him out of the presidency in 2009.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/21/sports/swiss.php
« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 11:32:24 AM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
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_JS

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Re: Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain
« Reply #89 on: October 22, 2007, 11:06:17 AM »
Quote
A moral right and obligation to use social justice and social equality to regulate immigration? Yes, perhaps. But I don't think you can claim that is what we do, BT.

That wasn't the question.

Asked another way, is it morally defensible to manage the influx of legal immigrants into this country.

I cannot answer "yes" or "no."

It is morally defensible, but not the way we do it - not even close.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.