Author Topic: Dinner with Ahmadinejad  (Read 34645 times)

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BT

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Re: Dinner with Ahmadinejad
« Reply #150 on: October 04, 2007, 11:01:32 AM »
Quote
With wimps like you, it is amazing this country still exists. I can see it now: every draftee analyzes whether they should actually go based upon THEIR OWN evaluation of whether the conflict they MAY NB headed toward is justifed in their own eyes. Horror personalified.

In fairness to XO, I'm pretty sure what ever deferments he received were legal and above board.


Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Dinner with Ahmadinejad
« Reply #151 on: October 04, 2007, 11:08:08 AM »
But on the other end of the spectrum, you'd be a Burmese soldier firing on unarmed monks?
==============================================================

You bet your sweet patootie he would, and he would shoot them PROUDLY for his country.

Strangely, I always thought that the French Foreign Legion was the foremost fighting unit on the planet. Or the Special Forces. Or the Navy Seals.

Perhaps the Muhrines might be in fourth place.

But first in self-promotion. They are extremely good at that. That and brainwashing their recruits. It's almost as if Pride were not one of the Seven Deadly Sins with them.

===================================
Perhaps there is an unawareness as to why they had to, yes had to abolish the draft. It was because it didn't work during the Vietnam War. Draftees were called, but they did not report. They went to Canada, to Sweden, hid out or just ignored it completely.

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I didn't actually have a deferment. I failed an Army physical in 1961, and they should have given me a different classification, but they didn't, so I harrassed them for it about every six months for six years and eventually they sent me an invitation for a physical, but I was in Mexico and they sent it regular mail, so I didn't get it until after the date was passed. Then I sent them copies of all the previous letters about the physical I had already taken and they just gave up.

But I didn't think they had the right to tell me that I had to go halfway around the world to fight in someone else's civil war, and I still don't.

And I have the absolute right to do whatever the Hell I want with my own body. Maybe they could make me, but that would involve catching me first. And I can be quite nimble, despite the allergies that they failed me on the physical for. It's a bit of a family tradition. No one in my lineage has fired a shot in anger since the Revolutionary War.
My Civil War ancestors were doctors and medics. My grandfather was a preacher and my father was too old for WWII and was needed at his job for a paint company, where he did the accounting on govt. contracts.


 They threw a very few in jail for draft avoidance in Vietnam, but that did not add to the total number of soldiers.

If there were a draft today, there would be major rioting and civil disobedience, much worse than anything that happened in Vietnam. You can't tell people that they are free and then force them into uniforms and into combat in the US. This was done by Stalin in the USSR, but it didn't work there, either. Of course, the USSR was being invaded, which is quite different.

My guess is with about two million demonstrators, someone would yank Cheney and Juniorbush out of their cushy limos and offices and drown their sorry asses in the Reflecting Pool if they got the timing right. Could happen, but not without a draft. And maybe a court ruling that women were not exempt from the draft.

It might be considered a braver deed to do this than to go off and die in Iraq for their stupidity, arrogance and incompetence.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2007, 11:31:32 AM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Dinner with Ahmadinejad
« Reply #152 on: October 04, 2007, 11:19:02 AM »
Strangely, I always thought that the French Foreign Legion was the foremost fighting unit on the planet. Or the Special Forces. Or the Navy Seals.

Delta.

They do the Navy SEALS 6 week training program in *one* of their training weeks (they call it "Hell Week").
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

BT

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Re: Dinner with Ahmadinejad
« Reply #153 on: October 04, 2007, 11:19:42 AM »
My guess is that is the draft were reinstituted and was done by lottery with few to no exemptions or deferments there would be about 95% compliance, especially if state issued privileges like drivers licenses and student loans or attendance at govt funded institutions of higher learning were predicated on compliance.


_JS

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Re: Dinner with Ahmadinejad
« Reply #154 on: October 04, 2007, 11:34:38 AM »
Strangely, I always thought that the French Foreign Legion was the foremost fighting unit on the planet. Or the Special Forces. Or the Navy Seals.

Delta.

They do the Navy SEALS 6 week training program in *one* of their training weeks (they call it "Hell Week").

SAS
SASR
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
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   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Dinner with Ahmadinejad
« Reply #155 on: October 04, 2007, 11:35:13 AM »
My guess is that is the draft were reinstituted and was done by lottery with few to no exemptions or deferments there would be about 95% compliance, especially if state issued privileges like drivers licenses and student loans or attendance at govt funded institutions of higher learning were predicated on compliance.

=============================================================
Not even close. First, there would be hundreds of lawsuits. Then there would be thousands of internet blogs on how to fail the physical and how to get rejected.

Not that it will ever happen. The draft is dead, barring Chinese marching across the Bering Straits. But wait: Global Warming would make the ice rotten and we would be safe.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

_JS

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Re: Dinner with Ahmadinejad
« Reply #156 on: October 04, 2007, 11:53:53 AM »
My guess is that is the draft were reinstituted and was done by lottery with few to no exemptions or deferments there would be about 95% compliance, especially if state issued privileges like drivers licenses and student loans or attendance at govt funded institutions of higher learning were predicated on compliance.

=============================================================
Not even close. First, there would be hundreds of lawsuits. Then there would be thousands of internet blogs on how to fail the physical and how to get rejected.

Not that it will ever happen. The draft is dead, barring Chinese marching across the Bering Straits. But wait: Global Warming would make the ice rotten and we would be safe.



I've got to agree.

As long as there is a priveleged class (and there most certainly is) there will not be anything close to 95% compliance.

The "best and brightest" have to remain. Or as many Young Republicans mentioned at the 2004 RNC convention, they have to remain and fight the fight here against abortion and higher taxes!
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

BT

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Re: Dinner with Ahmadinejad
« Reply #157 on: October 04, 2007, 11:54:43 AM »
Quote
Not even close. First, there would be hundreds of lawsuits. Then there would be thousands of internet blogs on how to fail the physical and how to get rejected.

And for every lawsuit and every failed physical there would be deeper draws into the lottery. Instead of 66 being a safe number 166 might be. and you don't think the picks in danger wouldn't put a little peer pressure on the slackers?


BT

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Re: Dinner with Ahmadinejad
« Reply #158 on: October 04, 2007, 11:56:36 AM »
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The "best and brightest" have to remain. Or as many Young Republicans mentioned at the 2004 RNC convention, they have to remain and fight the fight here against abortion and higher taxe

How do these best and brightest avoid the draft when there are limited deferments and exemptions?

_JS

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Re: Dinner with Ahmadinejad
« Reply #159 on: October 04, 2007, 12:06:34 PM »
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The "best and brightest" have to remain. Or as many Young Republicans mentioned at the 2004 RNC convention, they have to remain and fight the fight here against abortion and higher taxe

How do these best and brightest avoid the draft when there are limited deferments and exemptions?

Their fathers, uncles, politicians they support with massive donations, etc... will be writing the law, that's my guess.

I'm not dismissing your idealism Bt, I respect it. I just don't think it will work in a society where class is as important as it is. Realistically, the children of the Bush and Kennedy families aren't going to fight beside the children of the families' from Dalton, GA or Unicoi, TN. I think you know that.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

BT

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Re: Dinner with Ahmadinejad
« Reply #160 on: October 04, 2007, 12:43:20 PM »
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Their fathers, uncles, politicians they support with massive donations, etc... will be writing the law, that's my guess.

And do you think the voters would put up with that crap. Not this time around. No student deferments, no gender exemptions, and i'm not sure certain disabilities would be exempted in this day and age of ADA. Can always use support personnel.

Luck of the draw.

If anything enlistments in the safer branches would skyrocket.

I served beside many from the upper middle and lower upper classes, either in the enlisted or officer sides  of the divide.




Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Dinner with Ahmadinejad
« Reply #161 on: October 04, 2007, 01:31:58 PM »
nd do you think the voters would put up with that crap. Not this time around. No student deferments, no gender exemptions, and i'm not sure certain disabilities would be exempted in this day and age of ADA. Can always use support personnel.

=============================================
The voters will put up with whatever crap is shat in their direction. Observe how they put up with Juniorbush and Cheney's inane antics.

Do you think that they would ever fire Blackwater and the rest of the mercenaries, considering how profitable they are for all concerned?

Not a gonna happen. No draft unless the country is faced with armed invasion.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: Dinner with Ahmadinejad
« Reply #162 on: October 04, 2007, 02:15:10 PM »
So Lanya's whole meme about the armed forces being broken is just idle chatter.

No real concern?

kimba1

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Re: Dinner with Ahmadinejad
« Reply #163 on: October 04, 2007, 04:25:46 PM »
If you are called to Serve, you Serve. It is for your superiors to decide the matters of which you describe.

-------------------------------------------------------

not quite true
if I were allowed to serve I would be a conscientious objector
I`m not capable of taking a human life
I know some folks think I`m a traitor and a coward for this and I say have fun having kids with your mom.
but besides that I`ll serve my country as a medic which does not even require me to carry a gun.
many has serve thier country without being in the front line and are hardy less valuable
if that`s a problem tough.


Lanya

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Re: Dinner with Ahmadinejad
« Reply #164 on: October 04, 2007, 07:09:11 PM »
Quote
The "best and brightest" have to remain. Or as many Young Republicans mentioned at the 2004 RNC convention, they have to remain and fight the fight here against abortion and higher taxe

How do these best and brightest avoid the draft when there are limited deferments and exemptions?

Their fathers, uncles, politicians they support with massive donations, etc... will be writing the law, that's my guess.
 
I'm not dismissing your idealism Bt, I respect it. I just don't think it will work in a society where class is as important as it is. Realistically, the children of the Bush and Kennedy families aren't going to fight beside the children of the families' from Dalton, GA or Unicoi, TN. I think you know that.


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In some cases, people would send their kids to study abroad (like Joe Lieberman's son). In others, I imagine there would be churches that required several years of missionary service that kids could belong to.

If people don't feel now that they're obligated to pay taxes at a rate proportionate to their income,  if they don't feel they should pay for the war NOW, why on earth would anyone  expect any of them to give up their lives or their children's lives?
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