Author Topic: Coulter Said What?  (Read 54294 times)

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Plane

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Re: Coulter Said What?
« Reply #120 on: March 11, 2007, 05:28:37 PM »
"N*GGERS ARE THE CAUSE OF THE DOWNFALL OF AMERICA!"



What should our reaction to your use of this phrase be?

Universe Prince

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Re: Coulter Said What?
« Reply #121 on: March 11, 2007, 05:36:28 PM »

What should our reaction to your use of this phrase be?


What do you think your reaction to a quote pulled entirely and deliberately out of context should be?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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Plane

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Re: Coulter Said What?
« Reply #122 on: March 11, 2007, 05:44:45 PM »

What should our reaction to your use of this phrase be?


What do you think your reaction to a quote pulled entirely and deliberately out of context should be?


Context is mitigateing?

Or is context the heart of the matter?


IN the context of telling me that he would very seldom use the "N" word he uses the n word (sort of) because it sets up his point.


IN the context of ridiculing the rehab stampede ,Ann Colter uses a word that sets up her trip to rehab.


Stray Pooch might be even more talented than Ann Colter but should I cut him more slack?

Stray Pooch

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Re: Coulter Said What?
« Reply #123 on: March 12, 2007, 01:08:30 AM »
The word I used was "NAGGERS"

If your mind put any other substitute letter in there, that's your problem.

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Stray Pooch

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Re: Coulter Said What?
« Reply #124 on: March 12, 2007, 01:40:09 AM »
Plane, you asked if context mitigates.   In fact, context is critical to analysis.  Cornel West said "Martin Luther King, Jr. was a negro who resisted niggerization."  He also said, attributing the idea to Abraham Lincoln,  "The nigger was an American invention."  John Lennon said "Woman is the nigger of the world."  In none of these contexts is the word used to demean African-Americans.  It is used to point out how the race was oppressed (or, in Lennon's case, how woman were being oppressed in a similar manner).

"Woman is the nigger of the world" has a completely different meaning from "That woman is a nigger."  "The nigger was an American invention" is different from "Some American niggers are inventors."  And the use of the term "nigger" in this entire paragraph is well within reasonable standards of debate.  One cannot, effectively, discuss the relative merit of the word (and the concept of context) without using the word.  Now imagine if this post was selectively quoted in this fashion:

   Stray Pooch said "Some American niggers are inventors."  What a bigotted ass!

Of course the quote is accurate, but out of context it appears that I am deliberately using the word in an offensive manner, rather than simply illustrating an inappropriate use of the word.

Yes, Ann might have used the word "faggot" to illustrate a point.  But she did so in a manner which accused Edwards of being a "faggot" and which used an obviously offensive word in a context which suggested the word should be considered acceptable. And let's face it, even accepting the fact that such humor has a receptive audience in like-minded people, her use of it was juvenile and silly.  She should be slapped around copiously and then forced to have sex with Rosie O'Donnell.  (See, that's how Ann would have put it had the shoe been on the other foot.)
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BT

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Re: Coulter Said What?
« Reply #125 on: March 12, 2007, 01:56:36 AM »
Quote
Yes, Ann might have used the word "faggot" to illustrate a point.  But she did so in a manner which accused Edwards of being a "faggot" and which used an obviously offensive word in a context which suggested the word should be considered acceptable. And let's face it, even accepting the fact that such humor has a receptive audience in like-minded people, her use of it was juvenile and silly.  She should be slapped around copiously and then forced to have sex with Rosie O'Donnell.  (See, that's how Ann would have put it had the shoe been on the other foot.)

To claim that those who think many use rehab as away of avoiding public backlash as was the case of the guy on Greys anatomy or Michael Richards or Mel Gibson are racist, homophobic or anti-semetic is a bit of a stretch, yet you just did it.


Stray Pooch

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Re: Coulter Said What?
« Reply #126 on: March 12, 2007, 02:15:43 AM »
I did no such thing. 
Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .

BT

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Re: Coulter Said What?
« Reply #127 on: March 12, 2007, 02:17:41 AM »
What does like minded mean?

Stray Pooch

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Re: Coulter Said What?
« Reply #128 on: March 12, 2007, 02:21:17 AM »
In the context I used it, it means "those who are as bigotted as Ann Coulter."

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BT

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Re: Coulter Said What?
« Reply #129 on: March 12, 2007, 02:31:02 AM »
So you did in fact say those who agreed with Coulter concerning misuse of rehab are bigotted.

Why did you say you didn't?

Universe Prince

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Re: Coulter Said What?
« Reply #130 on: March 12, 2007, 02:48:24 AM »

Context is mitigateing?

Or is context the heart of the matter?


Neither. Or maybe both, depending on one's perspective. Context is information. You asked what should be our reaction to Pooch's use of the phrase. The problem is that you've deliberately left out important information relevant to understanding Pooch's use of the phrase. You've removed something from the meaning that Pooch's comments had, which is not what the people criticizing Coulter's comments have done with her statement. And in the case of Pooch and myself, we have argued that the context of Couter's use of the word 'faggot' is exactly what makes her comment objectionable.


IN the context of telling me that he would very seldom use the "N" word he uses the n word (sort of) because it sets up his point.


IN the context of ridiculing the rehab stampede ,Ann Colter uses a word that sets up her trip to rehab.


Stray Pooch might be even more talented than Ann Colter but should I cut him more slack?


I'd say Pooch is clearly more talented than Coulter. Anyway, your presentation of the nature of Coulter's comment is incorrect. In the context of calling John Edwards a faggot, she made fun of political correctness and the Grey's Anatomy fiasco. And I should also point out here that while neither Pooch nor I took Coulter's use of the word 'faggot' out of context, the argument BT made, that the phrase containing the word 'faggot' was unrelated to the rest of the sentence, is the argument that attempts, by saying the context is irrelevant, to remove Coulter's use of the word out of the context in which the word was used.

So no, I am not saying you should cut Pooch more slack. I'm saying both what Coulter said and what Pooch said should be understood in context because context is relevant.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 02:54:32 AM by Universe Prince »
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Stray Pooch

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Re: Coulter Said What?
« Reply #131 on: March 12, 2007, 02:50:36 AM »
I said no such thing.   Why did you say I did?
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Universe Prince

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Re: Coulter Said What?
« Reply #132 on: March 12, 2007, 02:51:18 AM »

So you did in fact say those who agreed with Coulter concerning misuse of rehab are bigotted.


Can you find a quote where he directly said that?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

BT

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Re: Coulter Said What?
« Reply #133 on: March 12, 2007, 03:16:50 AM »
Quote
I said no such thing.   Why did you say I did?

Because you admitted when referring to Coulters like minded listeners that you meant they were bigots. I am of like mind when it comes to misusing rehab as a way to get the spotlight off of you,ergo i am a bigot in your eyes.

The object of Coulters derision was not Edwards as the person she was deriding was the actor from Greys Anatomy (Isaiah Washington) who called a fellow cast member a faggot and then decided it would be best if he went to rehab.  I guess she could have called Edwards a kike and then done the riff about rehab but that certainly wasn't fresh news and perhaps not that many people would have understood the reference.


Stray Pooch

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Re: Coulter Said What?
« Reply #134 on: March 12, 2007, 03:23:41 AM »
I suspect, UP, that BT would say that argument mirrors his about Coulter calling Edwards a faggot.   The difference appears lost to this debate.

This is tiresome.  

BT, at the risk of falling into an ad hominem argument, I feel that either your bias on this issue or a sense of defensiveness has caused you to develop a case of tunnel vision.  You and I disagree on fundamental points, and the argument you are currently making presupposes my agreement with your POV.  

Ann Coulter is a bigot.  Adolph Hitler could have made wonderful arguments about freedom of speech and he would still be a bigot.  Coulter's comments were both homophobic and accusatory.  I think that any other analysis of the comments is denial - or defense of her bigotry.  In your case, I believe it is denial.  You rationalize that the allusion to previous comments explains her recent ones.  I think that is very poor analysis.  I do not deny that her comments alluded to her previous ones.  I simply point out that, irrespective of that fact, her comments were both homophobic and accusatory.  I disagree with you on the analysis of her comments and nothing you have said has given me even a satisfactory reason for reconsidering my position.

I also said that people who are as bigotted as Ann Coulter would find her bigotted humor funny.  You chose to insist that I really meant that people who agree with her previous point about rehab were bigots.  The thoughts are in no way related.  The analysis, once again, is poor.  In the analytical exercise you just attempted, you substituted YOUR interpretation for Coulter's comments for MY interpretation.  That is not a valid analytical method.

I do not concede at all that Ann's latest comments concerned people using rehab to get out of trouble.  They merely referred back to previous comments that, apparently, made that point (taking your word for their meaning - and based on this conversation that may not be a safe bet). Their point was that Edwards was a faggot.  

Those who believe that Edwards is a faggot - and that stating so in such words is acceptable - agree with Ann Coulter and should be given the same consideration.  (That's including the Rosie treatment.)   Those who choose to comment on the subject ought to criticize her or defend her based on the merit of that statement, not some Clintonian legalistic parsing of terms.  Those who defend her on those terms are - as she is - idiots.  Those who believe such sentiments are wrong, and who fail to state that are cowards - and they give tacit approval to her comments in the same way that Muslim leaders who do not speak out against suicide bombers silently condone those actions.  It is fair and proper to question whether those who comment on the controversy yet remain silent concerning the accusation and the term are confederate or cowardly.
Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .