DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Kramer on October 25, 2011, 10:34:04 PM
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WASHINGTON (AP) — Army 1st Lt. Ashley White died on the front lines in southern Afghanistan last weekend, the first casualty in what the Army says is a new and vital wartime attempt to gain the trust of Afghan women.
White, like other female soldiers working with special operations teams, was brought in to do things that would be awkward or impossible for her male teammates. Frisking burqa-clad women, for example.
Her death, in a bomb explosion in the Taliban heartland of Kandahar, demonstrates the risks of placing women with elite U.S. special operations teams working in remote villages.
Military leaders and other female soldiers in the program say its rewards are great, even as it fuels debate over the roles of women in combat.
"We could do things that the males cannot do, and they are starting to realize that," says Sgt. Christine Baldwin, who like White was among the first groups of women deployed to Afghanistan this year as specially trained "cultural support" troops.
Male soldiers often cannot even speak to an Afghan woman because of the strict cultural norms that separate the sexes and the tradition of women remaining behind closed doors most of the time. Forcing the issue has yielded only resentment, military officials say, and has jeopardized the trust and cooperation of villagers. From the start of the war 10 years ago, Afghans have especially resented the practice of "night raids" in which male foreign soldiers enter and search homes, the traditional sanctum of women.
"We could search the female, find out the other half of the information," Baldwin said in an interview. "If you're missing half of the lay of the land, how effective are you in engaging the populace?"
That question was eight years in the making. It arose from the frustration of U.S. commanders who realized two years ago that as they tried to apply the principles of counterinsurgency — protect civilians and enlist them to reject insurgents and provide intelligence — they were not reaching the majority of the Afghan population.
Now, the first female soldiers are serving in commando units. They are trained to ferret out critical information not available to their male team members, to identify insurgents disguised as women and figure out when Afghan women are being used to hide weapons.
U.S. women have been on the front lines in Afghanistan since the war began, and over time they have been used to reach out to the Afghan population through health care initiatives and other programs. They have traveled with Army soldiers and Marines throughout the warfront, often to assist in development projects or as part of psychological operations, which now are called MISO, or military information support operations.
But as elite special operations teams fanned out across the country doing counterinsurgency "stability operations" in the small villages, they complained to their superiors that they were not reaching the women and children who comprise as much as 71 percent of the population.
"We waited too long to get to this," says Command Sgt. Maj. Ledford Stigall. "We had a lot of people focused on the kill and capture, and it really took someone to say, hey it's not about kill, capture, it's about developing a country that can take care of itself."
"Women have a voice," he said. "They can influence the men in their society."
In 2009, under pressure from Gen. Stanley McChrystal, then the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, and Gen. David Petraeus, then the top U.S. commander in the Middle East, the Army began to develop Cultural Support Teams.
Last November, the first group of women went through a grueling five-day assessment that tested their physical and military skills, their problem-solving and writing abilities and their psychological and mental fitness. Those that passed moved on to a six-week training program.
And in January, the first group of 28 women were deployed to Afghanistan with Army Rangers and Special Forces teams.
They went in two-woman teams as part of larger special operations units, usually numbering about a dozen. And they were designed to go out on patrols and into the villages with the special operators to help build relations with the communities by engaging with the Afghan women.
In the process, they also could glean valuable intelligence about the people in the region, information they might not be able to get from the men.
Capt. Adrienne Bryant was in the first group that deployed.
Down in Helmand Province with a team of Marine special operations forces, Bryant said, the initial response from the population was tepid.
On her first patrol, however, the team introduced her and her CST teammate to a village elder.
"He had been constantly abused by the Taliban, had been kidnapped and returned and he didn't want to work with coalition forces any more because of the fear the Taliban was going to retaliate," Bryant said in an interview.
Bryant and her teammate talked to him about what they could do for the women of his village, including the medical assistance and skills training, like sewing, they could bring. And he was interested.
"Helmand was a pretty conservative area, women aren't really seen out much, they don't shop. So we had to disguise our sewing program; we ran it in conjunction with our clinic," Bryant said. "In case the women were being scrutinized because they were coming to learn a skill from us, they had cover by coming on clinic days."
Baldwin was sent up north with an Army special operations team in Kunduz Province. The women they encountered were hesitant at first.
"We'd go out on patrol and be all kitted up and they were almost fearful, but once we took off that helmet, and put on the scarf, they would recognize that it was a female and the fear would be gone," she said.
Both Baldwin and Bryant said the Afghan women and children at their meetings grew from a few to dozens. Neither said they ever felt they were in immediate danger during their eight-month deployment, although they knew what was possible.
"Any day that they're walking into a village and engaging with the population they are at the same risk as those Special Forces, SEALs, or special operators they're detailed to. So I would say it is not for the weak-kneed," said Michael Lumpkin, principal deputy assistant defense secretary for special operations. "These women are on the front lines in very austere locations."
Ashley White, 24, was among the 34 CST members to go to Afghanistan in the second group, and she was assigned to a Ranger unit. The Ohio native and two Rangers were killed when their assault force triggered a roadside bomb. In a press release Monday, U.S. Army Special Operations Command said White "played a crucial role as a member of a special operations strike force. Her efforts highlight both the importance and necessity of women on the battlefield today."
Lumpkin said that so far commanders agree the program has been a success. The third group of women is about to begin training, and the tentative plan is to have 25 permanent Army CST teams by 2016.
"When 71 percent of the population are women and children, you have to have buy-in from a greater number of people in the villages to really connect with them, and to understand really what's going on. Because of that female-to-female connection, that can be achieved," Lumpkin said.
He added, "We're coming late to the table, but we've recognized the value (of the program), and I think this will transcend beyond Afghanistan. ... I don't see them going away any time soon."
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One failure after another, each one coming as The Next New Thing. We're gonna win because of the surge. We're gonna win because of our Special Ops who are culture sensitive. We're gonna win because we have big drones. We're gonna win because we have little bitty drones. We're gonna win because we send in women to help terrorize and abuse the natives.
You're gonna lose the fucking war just like you lost Iraq just like you lost Viet Nam. Whenever needed, your dumb-ass military come up with some new bullshit on why, THIS TIME, it's really, really different and the dumb-ass American public buy it no matter how many Next New Things have already come and gone and been forgotten.
Most of all, you're gonna lose because you're broke and you can't afford to keep up even the pretence of fighting a war effectively and some bullshit excuse will have to be made up for the reality that your sorry asses are once more being hauled out of a fight that you couldn't win despite all your material advantages.
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One failure after another, each one coming as The Next New Thing. We're gonna win because of the surge. We're gonna win because of our Special Ops who are culture sensitive. We're gonna win because we have big drones. We're gonna win because we have little bitty drones. We're gonna win because we send in women to help terrorize and abuse the natives.
You're gonna lose the fucking war just like you lost Iraq just like you lost Viet Nam. Whenever needed, your dumb-ass military come up with some new bullshit on why, THIS TIME, it's really, really different and the dumb-ass American public buy it no matter how many Next New Things have already come and gone and been forgotten.
Most of all, you're gonna lose because you're broke and you can't afford to keep up even the pretence of fighting a war effectively and some bullshit excuse will have to be made up for the reality that your sorry asses are once more being hauled out of a fight that you couldn't win despite all your material advantages.
If we would just go in and fight a war the way it should be fought they would be over rather quickly and at little cost of our lives and our money. But liberalism has caused us to fight sanitary wars which in turn cost more lives and more money. WWII was the last well fought war.
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So the Libyan War which had 0 casualties was longer than WWII?
There were no US casualties in the action against Serbia, either.
Republicans should not be allowed to start wars. Iraq and Afghanistan being two very good examples.
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<<If we would just go in and fight a war the way it should be fought they would be over rather quickly and at little cost of our lives and our money. But liberalism has caused us to fight sanitary wars which in turn cost more lives and more money. WWII was the last well fought war.>>
Your wars are "sanitary?" Since when is torture of prisoners "sanitary?" Since when is blowing up wedding parties "sanitary?" Since when is the terrorization of civilians during masked night raids on their homes "sanitary?" Since when are rape and murder of underage teenagers "sanitary?"
Shame how "liberalism" tied your hands. What a load of fucking bullshit. What tied your hands was the refusal to raise taxes to support the war. That war required a minimum of half a million fully armed U.S. soldiers occupying every square foot of inhabited land for fifteen years at the minimum and taking charge of every school, madrassa, newspaper and TV station in the country. Your "fiscal conservaties" would have had about eight heart attacks apiece if asked to pay for a reasonable war effort through taxes. So your Presidents Bush and then Obama decided to fight the war on the cheap. THAT'S why you've gotten nowhere in ten years.
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It is pretty clear that Afghanistan is unwinnable. Historically, Afghanistan has had perhaps 20 years total when the central government actually governed the entire country. That was before the Soviets took over.
It does make sense to use women soldiers, except in Afghanistan we should have declared victory and left long ago. Women are not going to win this war, it is simply unwinnable.
The only workable solution would be to get Pakistan to move to another neighborhood. That is impossible or course.
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It is pretty clear that Afghanistan is unwinnable.
Looks like the guy (Obama) that your reputation is heavily invested in is a fool just like you.
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Why is it a dumb idea? If you have the proper tool use it.
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Why is it a dumb idea? If you have the proper tool use it.
Model wars after WWII, if they had women in this role during WWII then I take it back, otherwise it's just more liberalism, which equals symbolism, which equals bad outcome.
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Are women soldiers in other countries armies ceremonial or do they take part in front line action. What about rebel armies in South America? Female fighters there?
Women have been in police forces for a while. How have they done facing armed resistance?
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Are women soldiers in other countries armies ceremonial or do they take part in front line action. What about rebel armies in South America? Female fighters there?
Women have been in police forces for a while. How have they done facing armed resistance?
What has always made America America is we are unlike all the rest and I don't want to become a 3rd world country. Excluding Israel because we know why women have been drafted into the military there.
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Have the women of Israel held their own during combat?
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Well we know how dumb the liberal pacifists Petraeus and McChrysta, who have have overseen between them probably more than 5,000 assassinations, are compared to the conservative lion WeWe, so lets remove all the women from Spec Ops and just nuke Pakistan, and fire bomb Afghanistan.
BSB
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Have the women of Israel held their own during combat?
I think so but I prefer American women not be placed directly into front line war because I don't like to see women blown up, shot, captured, and tortured, and it's bad enough that it happens to our young boys. My opinion isn't based on whether or not they can do the job.
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Your position is based on some sort of Chivalry.
You know i read somewhere where anti-mormonism as well as jim crow laws were based primarily on the chivalrous intent of southern men.
Not that your position and that tidbit are related. But your position remi9nded me of reading that.
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<<I don't like to see women blown up, shot, captured, and tortured, and it's bad enough that it happens to our young boys.>>
Craziest fucking thing I've seen in a long time. I think in the interests of truth and accuracy we should probably rephrase this slightly, as in:
<<I don't like to see American women blown up, shot, captured, and tortured, and it's bad enough that it happens to our young boys.>>
With or without the addition of the single adjective, the statement indicates a sickening degree of callousness that goes a long way towards explaining the lack of any real mainstream opposition to the Bush and Obama readiness to go to war as the first or second option available, rather than as a genuine last option. Kudos to BT for recognizing and linking the underlying philosophy to chivalric codes tied to racism and less obviously to anti-Mormonism.
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Of course there's nothing wrong with the rape and murder of one million German women by Stalin's illiterate thugs, aka the Red Army. Or the murder of thousands and thousands of female infants in China.
BSB
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Kramer the conservative lion >> I don't like to see women blown up...................<<
Gee, and I thought you just didn't like the "liberal way" we were going about killing people.
BSB
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<<Of course there's nothing wrong with the rape and murder of one million German women by Stalin's illiterate thugs, aka the Red Army. >>
Those so-called "illiterate thugs" are what kept me and my mum and dad and millions like us out of the gas chambers. And as for the German women raped and killed by the Red Army, fuck those Nazi bitches, I only wish it really WAS one million of them. Compared to what their men did in Eastern Europe and Russia, one million is way too small a number for any meaningful payback. It's not even on the radar. They should just thank their fucking God that it was a Red Army and not a Jewish army that came to take their revenge on them. Since you don't seem to have a clue WTF you are talking about here, it would be better for you to just STFU.
<<Or the murder of thousands and thousands of female infants in China. >>
Female infanticide was practiced all over Asia for millennia. Life is very hard for hundreds of millions of people over there, attitudes toward human life are way different than ours. When their living standards are raised, as the CCP is trying to raise them, more liberal and humane values will naturally come to prevail there. I certainly believe that whatever the current rate of female infanticide is in China, it would be way less than what it was there a hundred years ago. And for that, we can thank the CCP.
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2011/03/14/sex-selection-china-india.html (http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2011/03/14/sex-selection-china-india.html)
Is 20% insignifigant?
There is a reason to prefer that women be protected by men to the reverse, it is a bit harsh.
Loosing up to 20% of the populations males does not impact the reproductive capability of the population significantly.
Each percent of females lost is directly a percent of reproductive capability lost.
China, India, even Korea may in a few years have 15% or so more males than females in their early twentys.
Especially in China with its history of ignoring the rights of the individual , this suggests that the solution will be self starting as the males will start shooting each other. Might as well draft them and make them shoot the excess males of other countrys rather than allow them to shoot up their hometowns.
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AS the father of two lovely, educated and talented women, I certainly don't want to be seen as minimizing the horrors of female infanticide. (My daughters would kill me!) It's a desperate measure arising out of desperate circumstances that no family should have to endure. But in Asia, it's just an ugly reality, and obviously not a by-product of communism so much as a long-standing perceived survival mechanism deeply embedded in the various local cultures. I think a large part of it is just sheer stupidity, the culture not permitting the families to see the illogic implicit in their "survival mechanism." Education and better standards of living seem to be the best answers. But the prejudice runs deep, and it's pervasive through all classes.
Back a few years when my wife was pregnant with our first child, I happened to run into a well-educated, young, upper-class Pakistani fellow who had worked for me but then left amicably to return to school. We were catching up on each other's news, when I told him my wife was expecting, and I still remember how his face lit up and he shook my hand, saying "Congratulations, sir! May it be a boy!!!"
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"gendercide" in China: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5953508/ns/world_news/t/china-grapples-legacy-its-missing-girls/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5953508/ns/world_news/t/china-grapples-legacy-its-missing-girls/)
BTW, Stalin and his illiterate thugs, along with Mao and his illiterate thugs slautered more people, mostly their own people, than all of our prsidents put together.
BSB
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They won't be shooting each other so much, because China has pretty effective gun control.
There is no 2nd Amendment to the Chinese Constitution.
Maybe they will use knives.
Excess males are preferable to starvation, which is the alternative.
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Your position is based on some sort of Chivalry.
You know i read somewhere where anti-mormonism as well as jim crow laws were based primarily on the chivalrous intent of southern men.
Not that your position and that tidbit are related. But your position remi9nded me of reading that.
Be that as it may our country should vigorously defend it's women and children and if it were absolutely necessary that our women go to battle then so be it. I celebrate that we don't have to as Israel is required. And I do not see it as discrimination; on the contrary, our nation should have a higher regard for our women. What has changed since WWII? And since women birth children they should be there to raise them. I see a huge disconnect building in society with our children growing up without proper rearing. Our country is paying a heavy price for our children not being raised in proper families. Likely many of the defects that are protesting in our cities these days have been raised in dysfunctional homes.
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Not only did the CCP encourage "gendercide", Snowblower, by its one child per family edict it owns the "gendercide" as surely as Hitler owned the ovens.
BSB
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Yeah, I'm sure that having a few women in spec ops will lead to more protests down the road.
BSB
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China's gun control not all that effective.
http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=51921 (http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=51921)
Yes, XO, lets curb international population growth by killing all the infant girls. And maybe we can kill 100,000,000 people every so often like Stalin while we're at it. That should curb some of the starvation around the globe.
BSB
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Yeah, I'm sure that having a few women in spec ops will lead to more protests down the road.
BSB
Dave Halloween is approaching. Got an idea for a costume that you might want to wear.
Dress up as the pirate Long John Silver.
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<<BTW, Stalin and his illiterate thugs, along with Mao and his illiterate thugs slautered more people, mostly their own people, than all of our prsidents put together. >>
Well, obviously, you can choose to believe Cold War propaganda bullshit or you can choose to laugh it off for the ludicrous crap that it is, and we've each made our choices.
There's also a question of WHO got killed by each side - - Stalin and Mao aimed at the enemies of the people, the USA (post-WWII) aimed at nationalist fighters for independence and their civilian supporters. I'll admit that plenty of targeting mistakes were made by both sides. However, while I don't see anything wrong with killing the enemies of the people, I sure as hell have an objection to torturing and murdering fighters for national independence and their families.
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Kudos to BT for recognizing and linking the underlying philosophy to chivalric codes tied to racism and less obviously to anti-Mormonism.
For a guy that uses the slur Uncle Tom against black people that's a bit of a stretch but nice try.
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You'd have to be someone who shrugs off the murder and rape of a million women to believe that the carnage left behind by Mao and Stalin is propaganda.
Any governmental formation that has a history of killing millions of its own people, communism, is not a national liberation movement, it's a national nightmare.
BSB
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<<For a guy that uses the slur Uncle Tom against black people that's a bit of a stretch but nice try.>>
FYI, Kramer, "Uncle Tom" is not a slur against "black people" but against black whores who sell out their own people to shill for Whitey's racist GOP and expect their whoring to go un-noticed by the dumb and "brainwashed" black majority and others, and to receive the same dignity and respect for their whoring as other blacks get for fighting for their own group interests. Never happen, Kramer. And I've GOT to tell you how hilarious it is to see you, sirs and the other GOP racists in the group shriek in fake horror at the "racism" that you have claimed to find. LMFAO. Nice try yourself.
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For a person claiming an intent in no longer trying to defend himself from perseverating racial slurs, now adding whores to the equation, you sure are spending alot of time "not defending" it.
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<<For a guy that uses the slur Uncle Tom against black people that's a bit of a stretch but nice try.>>
FYI, Kramer, "Uncle Tom" is not a slur against "black people" but against black whores who sell out their own people to shill for Whitey's racist GOP and expect their whoring to go un-noticed by the dumb and "brainwashed" black majority and others, and to receive the same dignity and respect for their whoring as other blacks get for fighting for their own group interests. Never happen, Kramer. And I've GOT to tell you how hilarious it is to see you, sirs and the other GOP racists in the group shriek in fake horror at the "racism" that you have claimed to find. LMFAO. Nice try yourself.
Would you have the balls to say that directly to Thomas Sowells face on national TV?
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<<You'd have to be someone who shrugs off the murder and rape of a million women to believe that the carnage left behind by Mao and Stalin is propaganda.>>
I didn't say they were women, I said they were Nazi bitches. And it wasn't, unfortunately, a million but something way less than that number. But maybe I shouldn't have shrugged it off - - however small and pitiful the real number was, it was at least a tiny step towards the payback that those fucking bastards should have received but never did.
Yeah, I know, that's just vengeful and negative. Kinda like your own thoughts on our former gallant ally, the Red Army. Let's just do some breathing exercises and then meditate to a place where we can see all past actions as simply failure to recognize mara for its true nature, formed out of ignorance and not outrageous but merely infinitely sad and unenlightened.
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<<For a person claiming an intent in no longer trying to defend himself from perseverating racial slurs, now adding whores to the equation, you sure are spending alot of time "not defending" it.>>
I know. It's insidious. I can't resist the urge to rebut blatant stupidity when I see it. Maybe I'll just have to try to limit my efforts, keep 'em short.
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<<Would you have the balls to say that directly to Thomas Sowells face on national TV?>>
Hell no, that would be just plain rude. But I'd try to put it more politely. These scum HAVE to be exposed for what they are and national TV would be the ideal place to do it.
I guess one of the problems would be the distraction issue. Once I called him an "Uncle Tom" the whole discussion would then be hijacked by the issue of MY alleged "racism," pretty much as happened here. It's worse on national TV, where the debate time is strictly limited and the typical conservative trick would be to take the focus off their own racism and or Uncle Tom status by attacking the "racism" of the guy that made the call. After I'd given him the straw-man on a silver platter, I'd never be able to get a word in edgewise. It would be almost like begging him to please hijack the whole discussion, at my expense. I'd have the choice of trying to defend myself against the racism charges or letting them go to discuss the issues, and giving up on the "racism" charges completely. The TV format is really way too limiting.
Short answer - - never. I'd rebut Sowell's allegations, I'd point out how blacks could get hurt by them and how Whitey would benefit, but I'd never overtly raise the "Uncle" or "whoring" issues to give him the opening. The audience itself would have to conclude based on what I'd pointed out that the guy was really a whore and an Uncle Tom. The smart ones would get it immediately, the dumb ones, never - - but they'd still see the problems with Sowell's reasoning.
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News Flash......once you started using the racial slur, it no longer remained in the realm of "alledged"
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The only whore around here is you Snowblower. Whoring for some of the most murderous regimes in history. In the mean time I believe your own children, at least some of them, live here, pay taxes here, etc. I note that they didn't move to Russia, or Cuba, or some other hell hole you whore for.
The German women who were raped and murdered, and it wasn't some small pitiful number, no more deserved it than the Jews who were gassed in the camps. And the members of the Red Army who raped and murdered them were no different than the Nazies who worked in the death camps.
Further, Stalin, who sent untold millions to his camps where they died of neglect is no different than Hitler.
Drop dead Canuck.
BSB
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<<The only whore around here is you Snowblower. Whoring for some of the most murderous regimes in history. In the mean time I believe your own children, at least some of them, live here, pay taxes here, etc. I note that they didn't move to Russia, or Cuba, or some other hell hole you whore for.>>
My kids formed their own conclusions about the world and I formed mine. They don't think like me and they don't think like you. I have no idea why their conclusions should be dragged into this, especially when you have absolutely no idea what they think about anything. Don't descend beneath your own level of stupidity.
<<The German women who were raped and murdered, and it wasn't some small pitiful number, no more deserved it than the Jews who were gassed in the camps. And the members of the Red Army who raped and murdered them were no different than the Nazies who worked in the death camps.>>
They were Nazi bitches who deserved everything they got and more. And the Red Army men who meted it out to them were heroes and destroyers of Nazis. Youreally don't know shit about Nazis and their bitches, the Red Army or the death camps, so IMHO you really need to STFU about them. You are just embarrassing yourself with your fucking stupidity.
<<Further, Stalin, who sent untold millions to his camps where they died of neglect is no different than Hitler.>>
You don't know shit about either one of them, so your opinions on the subject are worth less than zero.
<<Drop dead Canuck>>
Eat my shit, motherfucker.
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They were Nazi bitches who deserved everything they got and more.
Then why didn't Allied Force i.e. American, British & Canadian troops rape em? Because as I previously stated Russians are fucked up and that's pretty much why Russia has been fucked up the last 100 years or so.
Mike that was very insensitive of you because Nazi or not Rape is Rape and it's wrong and moral people don't do it.
Clearly the Red Army ended up surpassing what the Germans did in war crimes in 1945.
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<<Then why didn't Allied Force i.e. American, British & Canadian troops rape em?>>
Obviously because the Nazis had not invaded America, Britain or Canada, and had not raped and tortured and murdered American, British or Canadian women, so the Americans, British and Canadians had nothing to seek revenge for.
<<Mike that was very insensitive of you because Nazi or not Rape is Rape and it's wrong and moral people don't do it. >>
Rape and murder of a Nazi bitch is basically doing God's work on earth. These people committed some of the most horrific crimes in the history of the planet and some kind of horrible punishment had to follow. Even a million (BSB's purely fictitious number) would not have been close to enough - - the whole fucking country should have been annihilated in a nuclear holocaust, but unfortunately The Bomb wasn't perfected until after the Nazis were defeated.
<<Clearly the Red Army ended up surpassing what the Germans did in war crimes in 1945.>>
Kramer, that statement is so fucking ludicrous that it's actually funny. The short answer is that like most Americans you know absolutely nothing about German war crimes, which is not really your fault, but still represents an appalling level of sheer ignorance. Maybe you should read up on a little history before expressing opinions like that. If I have the time, I'll try to dig up some Wikipedia or similar pieces on the crimes of the German people in WWII. Or just look 'em up on your own. When you learn what those fucking bastards did, you'll be able to put the rape and murder of a few Nazi bitches in its proper perspective of nothingness.
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I doubt very seriously Kramer is minimizing the crimes of the Nazis. I think the issue is the regime you support, and the fella running it, was pretty much just as bad/evil as messer Hitler. Possibly worse
So, if you want to claim how horrible and egregious the Nazis were under Hitler, I don't think you're gonna find anyone here that disagrees, but knock your socks off in finding & posting whatever articles you wish to display, that likely no one's gonna disagree with
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I doubt very seriously Kramer is minimizing the crimes of the Nazis. I think the issue is the regime you support, and the fella running it, was pretty much just as bad/evil as messer Hitler. Possibly worse
So, if you want to claim how horrible and egregious the Nazis were under Hitler, I don't think you're gonna find anyone here that disagrees, but knock your socks off in finding & posting whatever articles you wish to display, that likely no one's gonna disagree with
XO & Mike have a unique way of selectively defending & justifying evil acts. They seem as emotionalyt removed from evil and racism as Mike Dukakus was when asked what he would do if Kitty had been raped and killed, or was it killed and raped. I hope Mike & XO aren't typical of the leftist crowd or shall I say I hope leftists aren't anything like them two. This is the kind of mentality that causes genocide and ethnic cleansing.
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I don't think so......I had a thread on what I opined as the 2 types of hard core libs (http://debategate.com/new3dhs/index.php?topic=15898.msg130806#msg130806). I deduce that Xo, as wrong as he so often is, possibly fits into the more sincere liberal mode. Tee, on the other hand, is a textbook example of the power liberal, I referenced in that thread. Pretty scary world to think of with folks like that running societies and/or governments. Ironically, not too far off from what Radical Islam's options are....join, be subjugated by, or die
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Yeah, I'm sure that having a few women in spec ops will lead to more protests down the road.
BSB
Dave Halloween is approaching. Got an idea for a costume that you might want to wear.
Dress up as the pirate Long John Silver.
Mr. Kramer
What do you do when you have a dumb idea?
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What do you do when you have a dumb idea?
Never post a dumb idea.
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What do you do when you have a dumb idea?
Never post a dumb idea.
Alright then.