DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: kimba1 on September 20, 2012, 10:01:21 PM
-
http://news.yahoo.com/tax-penalty-hit-nearly-6m-uninsured-people-194442599.html (http://news.yahoo.com/tax-penalty-hit-nearly-6m-uninsured-people-194442599.html)
meaning it`s not much of an issue.
ever notice nobody is questioning why people don`t want insurance of any kind out of principle .
holy crap the ad here is about my job
-
You can pay the penalty and get diddley, or pay less, and be insured.
That makes perfect sense. The objective of the penalty is to see to it that everyone is covered.
If you drive without car insurance, it will cost you more than the insurance when they tow your car, jerk your license and fine you as well.
-
How much less?
Could someone with a lot of confidence in his health come out ahead by staying out of the system?
Could a company pay the penalty and using the diffrence get a better package of insurance?
-
actually my insurance is pretty limited and very much doubt the government system would be worst. it`s a probation package which increases in coverage after 6 months. I really don`t mind losing this job .
-
I tried getting insurance on my own and found none to be affordable to the point i can allow a doctor to give me test that he wants to give me. People don't understand $400 a month insurance does not equal full coverage. People like me will never get coverage like that except from a job
-
As a Federal employee I am used to a pretty good deal.
We are a large group and our employer has clout in the negotiation.
I used our Union insurance for a while , then Blue Cross.
The insurance is one of our best benefits.
-
My current Medicare Advantage Plan is vastly better than the many policies I had with the college where I worked. Every 3 years they would get a new insurer, the cost to me would go UP and the benefits would go DOWN. The Human Resources clowns recommended their insurance over Medicare to those on the faculty over 65 and too many people believed them, and that would raise the number of claims and the companies would refuse to renew at the same rates. The College liked to hire people who were retired from the public schools and were already getting a pension.
Every time we changed companies, a lot of people, including me, had claims denied. The usual cause was that the S number was entered incorrectly. I print V E R Y C A R E F U L L Y always, but they still got it wrong and denied a cople of Dr's visits. I know some people actually paid the bill. As you know, once you pay an incorrect bill, you will never see your money again, even if the company gets paid twice.
I compared the benefits when I turned 65 and simply cancelled the college insurance. I told everyione else to do the same and know that at least a couple did this. The HR pe
-
I`ll find out in a few weeks how good mine is . I got a appoinment tomorrow and will find out if I only pay a copayment. I`m not using a doctor from thier website but a doctor that accepts aetna. the ones on the website are all out of the city.
if people don`t understansd the need for obamacare, then the solution is get people access to better insurance. saying they can do better themselves is no solution at all.
-
Even President Obama does not know if Obamacare is an improvement.
I suspect it is not, as far as I know , no part of it will increase the number of doctors nor increase their availible time.
If they remain in the same supply and the demand does not decrease , how shall we have their services for less money?
Does Obamacare also repeal the law of supply and demand?
-
to me this is all a deflection about the cost of healthcare. we all all talk about the personal cost but I don`t hear about the actually cost of the medical bill.
ex. most american couples cannot financially afford to have a baby if it wasn`t for insurance. nobody is asking why is the cost of delivery more than a $1000.00?
the attention is not going to the right places in the medical & insurance industry
-
We all want Doctors.
We don't settle for midwives.
-
I do not know that we all want doctors. We can't have midwives because the hospital will not allow them to practice there. This is because that insurance companies will not sell the hospital malpractice insurance if it admits doctors.
It makes very good sense to replace doctors with midwives and nurse practitioners for many infirmities.
The American medical system is like this: We only have Rolls Royces. If you refuse to ride in our expensive Rolls Royce, there is only one option: you must walk. We will not consider a Chevrolet, Ford or Toyota.
-
I very much doubt the doctor is the sole reason for such a high cost. Remember that doctor has other patience so the he's not even giving full attention but is charging like he is
-
The doctor is not the reason for the high cost, at least most of the time, though by international standards, doctors, specialists in particular ARE overpaid. Medical malpractice insurance, medical equipment and companies that finance it, and medical supplies are all overpriced. When you go to a hospital, everything is overpriced. They can charge $10 for one aspirin.
And of course, drugs are overpriced and sold in such a way as to make competition based on price very difficult.
There is NO REASON why I should have to have a prescription for a fungal creme. There is NO REASON why I should have to pay $35 for half an ounce of it, either.
-
Fungal creme?
I once tried to go to a dermatologist but my insurance require me to 1st go my primary to refer me to one. Meaning more out of pocket for me and one extra visit . More money for insurance. Also thiers very little difference in strength in fungal creme from the over the counter to prescription. If it's really bad you get the oral sruff that can mess with your kidney.
-
This fungal creme was prescribed by my GP. Unfortunately, the doctor wrote the word "ointment" instead of the word "creme" and the pharmaceutical assistant refused sell me the creme even though there was no such thing as this product (same percentage) in anything called "ointment". I had to wait a day for the fools at Walgreen's to contact the doctor.
Any sane person would know that a 2% ointment would not have any different effects than a 2% creme. But the law is the law, and as a Dickens character once said "The Law is a ass."
-
Drugstores bugs me
All those people working and it still takes forever to get my drugs i'm not saying they don't work hard but they do seem get bottleneck at the pickup window.
-
The people may work hard, but the process of selling a prescription is laborious.
In countries that do not require a prescription or keep a record of every customer, you are in and out in under a minute: Mexico, Spain, Argentina, Uruguay, Ecuador and France.
-
True mexico isveasy on getting stuff quick but they got almost a store on every block in tj. It think its had to get regular drugs there. Ex. Asprin
-
There is no sound reason why people would prefer to pay a penalty and get nothing rather than a premium and get something.
There is a basic difference between car insurance and medical insurance: everybody dies, nearly always of something that requires some form of medical aid.
Not everyone has a car accident. Many people have none, many more have no serious car accidents.
The truth is that Romneycare seems to be working quite well in Massachusetts. There are few reasons why it could not work well in the entire country, and with some tweaks, it seems that it will be quite successful.
Ironically, voting for Romney will likely deprive most Americans of the only really good thing that this guy has done in his political career.
His campaign is not going well. He is looking more and more like Bob Dole.
-
.....
The truth is that Romneycare seems to be working quite well in Massachusetts. There are few reasons why it could not work well in the entire country, and with some tweaks, it seems that it will be quite successful.
Ironically, voting for Romney will likely deprive most Americans of the only really good thing that this guy has done in his political career.
This is one of the reasons that Romney was not my favoriate.
I don't think he will eliminate Obamacare as he ought.
-
He won't be elected. But he could not remove all the provisions of the ACA if he were elected. Once you have declared that no one can be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions, removing it is not really going to be possible.
-
He won't be elected. But he could not remove all the provisions of the ACA if he were elected.
I guess there's only 1 way to find out now
-
The Obamacare Medical Device Tax – a $20 billion tax increase: Medical device manufacturers employ 409,000 people in 12,000 plants across the country. Obamacare imposes a new 2.3 percent excise tax on gross sales – even if the company does not earn a profit in a given year. In addition to killing small business jobs and impacting research and development budgets, this will increase the cost of your health care – making everything from pacemakers to prosthetics more expensive.
The Obamacare “Special Needs Kids Tax” – a $13 billion tax increase: The 30-35 million Americans who use a Flexible Spending Account (FSA) at work to pay for their family’s basic medical needs will face a new government cap of $2,500 (currently the accounts are unlimited under federal law, though employers are allowed to set a cap).
There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children. There are several million families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education. Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education. This Obamacare tax provision will limit the options available to these families.
The Obamacare Surtax on Investment Income – a $123 billion tax increase: This is a new, 3.8 percentage point surtax on investment income earned in households making at least $250,000 ($200,000 single). This would result in the following top tax rates on investment income:
Capital Gains Dividends Other*
2012 15% 15% 35%
2013+ 23.8% 43.4% 43.4%
The table above also incorporates the scheduled hike in the capital gains rate from 15 to 20 percent, and the scheduled hike in dividends rate from 15 to 39.6 percent.
The Obamacare “Haircut” for Medical Itemized Deductions – a $15.2 billion tax increase: Currently, those Americans facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). This tax increase imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI. By limiting this deduction, Obamacare widens the net of taxable income for the sickest Americans. This tax provision will most harm near retirees and those with modest incomes but high medical bills.
The Obamacare Medicare Payroll Tax Hike -- an $86.8 billion tax increase: The Medicare payroll tax is currently 2.9 percent on all wages and self-employment profits. Under this tax hike, wages and profits exceeding $200,000 ($250,000 in the case of married couples) will face a 3.8 percent rate instead. This is a direct marginal income tax hike on small business owners, who are liable for self-employment tax in most cases. The table below compares current law vs. the Obamacare Medicare Payroll Tax Hike:
First $200,000 All Remaining Wages
($250,000 Married) Employer/Employee
Employer/Employee
Current Law 1.45%/1.45% 1.45%/1.45%
2.9% self-employed 2.9% self-employed
Obamacare Tax Hike 1.45%/1.45% 1.45%/2.35%
2.9% self-employed 3.8% self-employed
-
Those are just the 5 worst (http://www.atr.org/five-worst-obamacare-taxes-coming-a7217). Thare are many other tax hikes, in Obamination Care, alone, that hurt the coveted middle class the most
-
Although Mitt Romney is not my ideal canadate , I am likly to vote for him because President Obama is so much further from my ideal.
There are six or eight points of the Obama-care bill that most of us like.
I especially like that my children don't need their own insurance untill they turn 26, I hate the idea of loosing that.
But the solution is very simple, we should write those eight features that the public loves onto a 3x5 card , make that into a bill that the Congress can make into law and preserve the bit that is well liked.
The eighty pound version of the "Affordable Health Care Act" can then be repealed with no pain at all.
-
The eighty pound version of the "Affordable Health Care Act" can then be repealed with no pain at all.
===========================================
Those who feel the pain are the ones who cannot afford health care as it is, and they will continue going to the ER for temporary fixes that will cost many times what decent co9verage would cost.
-
The eighty pound version of the "Affordable Health Care Act" can then be repealed with no pain at all.
===========================================
Those who feel the pain are the ones who cannot afford health care as it is, and they will continue going to the ER for temporary fixes that will cost many times what decent co9verage would cost.
The "Affordable Health Care Act " only assists people who have jobs, so only about half of the problem you are speaking of.
Lets back up and try again, this time trying to do something that can be understood and afforded .
-
Not to mention it hits the Middle Class the hardest, with higher taxes, and higher medical care costs...not to mention fewer doctors, longer waits, and reduced quality of care as physicians and helathcare providers have far more people they have to care for, and last time I checked, Government hasn't been able to extend the hours in a day to accomodate so many more
-
Sirs,
I would like to ask you , does the number of doctors ,nurses and medical tecnitions per capata have a direct or an indirect impact on the quality and cost of health care?
Is there a state , regionor nation that is building up the ratio of medical experts to population in a way that we could emulate?
Do insurance companys hold down costs , or enable inflation?
-
Not really sure it's lack of doctors. If i were to stictly follow aetnas own list for finding a doctor i would have travel thrirty miles to see a doctor. But I simply went to a doctor near my house and just asked if he takes aetna. He said yes.
Possibly insurance companies are simply very bad at recommending doctors
-
Not really sure it's lack of doctors.
It's really common sense, Kimba. If you take the same amount of Dr's we have in this country, and now nearly everyone is to be cared for, per ObamincationCare/Government, equals far fewer physicians
-
I was pointing out the possible cause of lack of doctors
-
While I was pointing out an actual reality to what will happen under Obamacare
-
not really
what your saying in the possible future thier will be lack of doctors , this is not fact but speculation with highly changable existing data. which is a goodthing the more you bring this up the more likely obamacare will be better when it happens.somehow complaints is thought of as a badthing. complaints is the very reason we imporove. the trick is knowing how far to go with a complaint
-
If Doctors get less pay, will the same number of students aspire to become Doctors?
-
actually they are getting less pay and I`ve seen many give-up thier practice. Also the students are not gaurantee a job after graduation so it`s very possible less will aspire.
-
The Law of supply and demand will determine the price, but not who pays the price.
-
not really
Yes really.......current situation X number of doctors, and Y number of patients. Under Obamacare, no change in X, but Y increases exponentially, as more people ARE to be covered. That's just the imminent reality
what your saying in the possible future thier will be lack of doctors , this is not fact but speculation with highly changable existing data.
With all due respect Kimba......that's a mathematical fact, in order to cover the millions more "entitled" to healthcare. and that doesn't even take into account the disincentive for future folks to want to become a Dr, or those Physicians already here, who may choose to go practice elsewhere, take up a new profession, or simply retire early. THOSE wold be the "changable data" that would actually make the situation far worse, as it relates to a Physician shortage under Obamacare
Then we add on all those new taxes built in, and we really see the monster behind the mask :(
-
Also , whereas Doctors tend to be high earners , most of them will be in the class that gets increased income taxes under the Obama plan.
-
Yet even more disincentive...and our pool of Dr's gets even smaller
-
As i stated before the doctors available but not getting hired
-
...and under Obamacare, far less available, just from a mathematical standpoint
-
Actually this is going into a differing topic. How good are med school in the U.S ?
Many graduate from med school but don't get hired on.
-
Most do, though that's somewhat irrelevent to the Physician shortage that will be enormous with the Obamacare mandate
-
We have a lack of general practitioners and an overabundance of specialists. Some of the specialists will have to give up on their delusions of Uncle Scrooge and become GP's.
Doctors, especially specialists, are overpaid by international standards.
We can't afford to pay them all that they demand.
-
Actually that's one of the main causes of doctors not getting hired.
-
But doesn't explain the severe shortage of Dr's we will have under Obamacare
-
Doctors do get around , lots of the Dr.s here grew up and went to school a long way from here, it must be one of the worlds most portable skills.
If Doctors feel welcome where they are , they run their business and the people in range benefit.
If Doctors get a better deal from moving , why shouldn't they?
Whether Obamacare is repealed or not , we need to insure that the right number of talented people become Doctors and come here, in recent years we have been practicly outsorcing the development of the talent then importing it.
Don't forget the tecnical staff and nurses that make each doctor more effective.
Would we get a good bang for buck by subsidiseing medical training for the specialitys that are not covered well?
-
In the future, we will get better care, and much of it will be delivered by qualified nurse practitioners, midwives and other non- doctors. New equipment will improve both diagnoses and treatments.
I went to Dr Kamerman for 15 years, He had a single practice and he never kept anyone waiting more than 20 minutes. His office staff could give shots and use the EKG without any pain involved. He was exactly three months older than I.
One day he told me that he had to lose 15 pounds immediately or he would die. He had a very convincing look of terror in his eyes. He weighed over 250 and was about 5'8" tall.
Two months later, my Medicare Plan told me he was no longer on the list. What had happened was that he died.
He always made a perfect diagnosis. He always cured my every ailment with every prescription. He told me that I must be having leg cramps before I could mention it, and then prescribed a cure, which, of course, worked.
He was married to a Panamanian woman who was an awful cook, he said. They ate out a lot, which was no good for his diet, His wife's family was close to Manuel Noriega's family. Before the invasion of Panama, a couple of FBI spooks grilled him for four hours about Noriega. He could only tell them that Noriega liked Inca Cola and Malbec wine. He did not discuss politics with Dr Kamerman. They were both fond of fishing for large fish, swordfish and sawfish, which they caught and released.
Kamerman had a sign in his office announcing that he had no medical malpractice insurance at all, because he could not afford it without doubling his rates. He had the examination routine down pat, it never varied as to what he did and in what order.
My new doctor is an Iranian fellow, very professional, but sort of a dead fish as a personality goes.
Kamerman billed $55 per visit to those without insurance. The County clinic charged $90 and made you wait for hours.
If you told him you missed a dose of his prescription, he would look you in the eye and tell you that he did not want patients that thought they knew better than he did. I heard him tell several patients this while I was getting weighted or hooked up to the EKG.
I never missed a dose of anything, because I have always assumed that the doctor is an expert. The worst experiences I have had with doctors' offices has been with bossy fat Queen Bee types running the appointments desk. I have abandoned three doctors who had such people running the office.
-
In the future, we will get better care, and much of it will be delivered by qualified nurse practitioners, midwives and other non- doctors.
Actually quite the polar opposite, as we watch the "crown" of universal healthcare, England's, tear its country's economic stability apart, and quality in care nosedives. More patients, less dr's, less quality in healtcare professionals, and less incentive to research and develop new equipment. But dammit, we're going to get everyone covered, and to hell with the Constitution or the consequences
-
Er....
England HAS no Constitution.
Just like Israel.
Why is it you ratbag rightwingers never take on how bad universal healthcare in Israel?
-
How is healthcare paid for in Israel?
I havent heard this one.
-
Er....
England HAS no Constitution.
Where did I ever claim they did?? I'd be referring to the lunatic left in this country
-
Israel has universal healthcare. Even wounded terrorists get treated for free.
Of course, that could not happen without YOUR tax dollars.