But.....but.....wasn't Bush being crucified by the MSM for the same??

[sirs]

White House: Helping install 'a democratic system' is goal in Libya
By Sam Youngman - 03/22/11
 
The White House suggested Tuesday the mission in Libya is one of regime change, despite emphatic statements from President Obama and military brass that the goal is not to remove Moammar Gadhafi from power.

According to a White House readout of a Monday night call between Obama and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the two leaders "underscored their shared commitment to the goal of helping provide the Libyan people an opportunity to transform their country, by installing a democratic system that respects the people?s will."
 
The term "installing" suggests the goal of regime change.

In an e-mail, White House press secretary Jay Carney said there is no change in the U.S. military mission, which he wrote was clearly focused on protecting civilians. He also noted Obama's remark Monday that Gadhafi is no longer fit to lead.

From the onset of the strikes against Libya, senior administration officials have said the goal is to create an atmosphere where Libyan rebels would be able to oust Gadhafi from power.

Obama has struggled to reconcile the stated U.S. policy of wanting Gadhafi out of power with the U.N. mission of protecting the Libyan people.

At a press conference Monday in Chile, Obama said it is "very easy to square our military actions and our stated policies."

But the president faces an increasingly hostile backlash from Capitol Hill about the specific definition of the mission.

You mean...*cough cough*...advocating regime change??

[BT]

I think Kramer has the right read on this.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Kramer does not know diddly about anything, ever. His only talent is for moronic seventh-grade insults.

The movements in Tunisia and Egypt have been favor of self-government, not the imposition of self government or anything else by Western powers. It is pretty obvious that there cannot be any change in Libya until Qadaffi is out of power.

[Kramer]

I think Kramer has the right read on this.

Thank you!

[BT]

Kramer does not know diddly about anything, ever. His only talent is for moronic seventh-grade insults.

The movements in Tunisia and Egypt have been favor of self-government, not the imposition of self government or anything else by Western powers. It is pretty obvious that there cannot be any change in Libya until Qadaffi is out of power.

In essense what Kramer said was that the desire for freedom and self determination is a universal longing, and that we should encourage it even if those seeking self determination pray to Allah.

I can't disagree with that.

[Christians4LessGvt]

we should encourage it

as always...the proof is in the details
no rational mind would say we shouldn't "encourage it"
but "encourage it" can mean a million things

[BT]

we should encourage it

as always...the proof is in the details
no rational mind would say we shouldn't "encourage it"
but "encourage it" can mean a million things

Yes encourage can mean a million different things.

Let's just say we shouldn't discourage it.

[Kramer]

we should encourage it

as always...the proof is in the details
no rational mind would say we shouldn't "encourage it"
but "encourage it" can mean a million things

Encouraging it doesn't mean encouraging terrorism. In other words this is the time to support the people there that are saying they don't want to be repressed any longer. This is our and their 1 in 1 million chance to end the war, terrorism and make peace! Let's give them another alternative than radical Islam. The people in the ME need to get on the freedom bandwagon, not stone em mentality. What we are seeing, if properly channeled, could save us and the West $billions and save millions of lives if this opportunity turns into freedom throughout the region. Bare in mind this might even open the door to freedom of religion in the ME as well. Imagine another alternative religion to Muslim. Imagine the spread of Christianity or other good religions throughout the ME and what could come out of that diversity and change of thinking. I wish Obama could see that this could be his legacy! Sad but I don't think he can get out of his tunnel to view the obvious.

[Christians4LessGvt]

I will be SHOCKED if real democracy emerges from ANY of these Middle East govt overthrows.
Not to understate I am saying....SHOCKED in CAPITAL LETTERS.
If "could" happen, but hasn't hardly EVER happened before.
Is it just a coincidence popular revolts in the Middle East don't turn out like the honeymoon?
Usually a bad guy (the Shah) is replaced by a new set of bad guys. (the Mullahs)
People were thrilled, cheering, hugging, clapping when the mean ole Shah was run outta town.
Only to be replaced by undemocratic terror exporting whackjobs now trying to build nukes to point at Israel.
We'll see......whats nice is our words of prediction are kept "written in stone" on 3DHS.....
we'll see who turns out to be correct.....happy freedom/democracy ending to story or more thuggery with a new face.

[BT]

I will be SHOCKED if real democracy emerges from ANY of these Middle East govt overthrows.
Not to understate I am saying....SHOCKED in CAPITAL LETTERS.
If "could" happen, but hasn't hardly EVER happened before.
Is it just a coincidence popular revolts in the Middle East don't turn out like the honeymoon?
Usually a bad guy (the Shah) is replaced by a new set of bad guys. (the Mullahs)
People were thrilled when the mean ole Shah was run outta town.
Only to be replaced by undemocratic terror exporting whackjobs now trying to build nukes to point at Israel.
We'll see......whats nice is our words of prediction are kept "written in stone" on 3DHS.....
we'll see who turns out to be correct.....happy freedom/democracy ending to story or more thuggery with a new face.

I'm not predicting anything.

I am saying if we believe in freedom we should believe in freedom for other peoples. If that is what they want.

That is what self determination is all about.

Whether the Libyans, Syrians, Jordanians, Egyptians, Tunisians, Saudis and Bahrainians are up to the task, time will tell.

In the meantime, I wish them the best.

[Christians4LessGvt]

Yea "freedom"!
Hugs and kisses
The honeymoon is on.....then reality hits
BT who are the rebels in Libya?
What are your sources that the rebels running around with grenade launchers embrace democracy and/or freedom?

[BT]

On Tuesday, the Interim National Council issued just such a reassuring statement from their rebel stronghold of Benghazi.

"The Interim National Council is committed to the ultimate goal of the revolution which is to build a democratic civil state, based on the rule of law, respect for human rights including guarantying equal rights and duties for all citizens," the Council said in their statement. "A state based on the rule of law and good governance where people live in a safe and secure environment and promotes equality between men and women."

The Interim National Council also "reaffirms that Libya's foreign policy will be based on mutual respect and common interest and reaffirms its respect for all Libya's previous bilateral and multilateral commitments," the group said. "Libya will be a state that fully respect the International law and International Humanitarian Law and participate in the international relations responsibly and constructively in good faith."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theenvoy/20110322/ts_yblog_theenvoy/who-are-the-libyan-rebels-u-s-tries-to-figure-out

Do you have a source that says that is not their goals?

You have to remember, this started as a protest. These aren't insurgents or battle hardened soldiers. Something is driving them to risk their lives. Maybe it's freedom, maybe it's not.

[Christians4LessGvt]

Do you have a source that says that is not their goals?

I have a source that says "talk is cheap".
The people cheered many a dictator when he ran off the wicked witch only to become one himself.
and I have middle east history on my side...you don't.

[Christians4LessGvt]

These aren't insurgents or battle hardened soldiers.

whats that mean?
what most these guys are just barbers that ran out of the barber shops to carry RPG's?
yeah sure BT


Libyan rebels retreat from the outskirts of the city of Ajdabiya, south of Benghazi


A rebel fighter walks towards a suspected Gaddafi supporter along the Benghazi-Ajdabiyah road

[BT]

Gee and i thought the reason we support Israel is because it is one of the few democratic countries in the Middle East.