Plane, you're into this God made man, man is special, if you abort a fetus you are going against God and the sanctity of life and so forth. However, a lot of us don't see it that way.
I see a turtles egg as being no more, or less, sacrosanct then a human fetus. Not all turtle eggs hatch a turtle, and if they do, many do not survive the first few days. Some of this is by choice of say, a predator, many by just the obstacle course nature presents.
For many humans, with our reproductive abilities, long duration of care necessarily given our offspring, the formation of a fetus and its likelihood of success can place upon us another serious obstacle on an already crowded course. Some planing is therefore desirable. It's a fact of life. It's a fact of a life that is long, hard, and that requires actions that are in some cases not pretty.
Your view is your view. It isn't my view, or apparently XO's view, or the view of millions around the world. Marry, if you want, someone who shares your view. Train your offspring, if you want, in the finer points, as you see them, of your view. But don't push your view on me, or my wife, or my girlfriend, or my offspring. There is nothing more special about your take on the world. There is nothing more special about your beliefs. You have no clearer path to wisdom. We all are just trying. We all are just making an effort to understand what Chinese Chan/Zen refers to as the great question of birth and death.
You find your Holly, I'll find mine.
BSB
You are not being observant here BsB although your points here baout my views are good guesses I have been avoiding scriptural support for my case.
You and XO are attacking all of the points I have not tried to makde, and have made no logical case for yourself at all.
Look at the arguement you have just made , thaqt because lots of Fetus die killing them is not a moral problem. Well lots of guys your age die , natural causes and accidents just like Fetus do. I still think that killing you with no due process is a moral problem.
There is no better case to make that a fetus is a non person than to make the case that veterans or old people or one or another race is of non person status.
I feel that I really won against XO when he abandoned logic entirely and stated
Look, you will NEVER convince me of your macho Biblical pro-fetus crap about abortion. I have given up on all of you, and so just take your stupid "pro life" crap and shove it, I am not addressing it here any more. There is nothing left to say, the horse is dead and even the bones are sinking into the ooze.
In other words "I am not open to reason" or " I need not justify my opinion to you nor to myself"
Now do you really mean to say that you are no more special to the law than a turtle?
Or do you mean that there need be no respect for life just because it is human?
My point, which I feel has not been adressed, is that drawing a circle around a type of person and declareing them non- persons is the door to great sins that has been opened several times in history causing great tragedy, and that declareing people who are fetus, non human is the same problem in every way.
I would not argue with a NATZI that the bible was against his stance on Jews being sub human , this would not be effective , I simularly have not been refering to the book in this arguement , it would be legitamate to me , but not to you.
So I restrict my arguements to logic as much as possible , and I see no logical answer yet.
Why indeed shouold there be a line drawn around people of a certain age and call them worthless and protecct them less than lab animals?
Why shouldn't we solve several economic problems by drawing a line around people too old to be persons and declare them void of any debts to them and beyond the protection of the law.
The logic is the same.
