Author Topic: Let the games begin  (Read 1202 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Let the games begin
« on: December 27, 2011, 07:44:47 PM »
Occupy activists meet in Iowa, plan caucus events

By RYAN J. FOLEY and MIKE GLOVER
Associated Press

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) -- Already they have interrupted Michele Bachmann and drawn a withering putdown from Newt Gingrich as "all noise, no thought."

Now, to the dismay of Iowa Republicans, Occupy activists in Des Moines are vowing to expand their protests as GOP presidential hopefuls converge on the state that speaks first in the race for the party's presidential nomination.

"The 99 percent have woken up and we're not going to take it anymore," Occupy activist Stephen Toothman, of Des Moines, said as an advance guard met Tuesday to decide which candidates to target in the coming week.

Hundreds of Occupy activists from at least 10 states were expected to participate in a "People's Caucus" near the Capitol to plot activities between now and the Jan. 3 caucuses. The activists are promising to interrupt candidates at events and camp out at their Iowa campaign offices. They say they want to change the political dialogue, but critics fear their tactics could tarnish Iowa's reputation for civil political discourse ahead of the contest. Activists say mass arrests are possible.

They planned to break up into preference groups based on which candidates they want to target and present with a list of grievances.

Organizers are encouraging activists who live in Iowa to show up on caucus night and vote "no preference" as a protest but say they have no plans to interfere with the voting itself. Nonetheless, state Republican Party officials have instructed precinct leaders to report any disruption to police and the party.

Iowa GOP Chairman Matt Strawn criticized Occupy activists for targeting the caucuses, which have long been held up as a model of democracy where citizens in the months leading up to the event can directly question candidates and then gather with their neighbors on caucus night. Strawn said he worried most of the problems would be caused by those from out of state.

"It would be an absolute shame if outside agitators ruin the Iowa caucus experience," he said.

Occupy activists, who came from as far away as New York and Seattle, said the caucuses were largely meaningless because the parties and candidates were overly influenced by wealthy, special interests that led them to ignore key issues.

"The caucuses are really a statement as to where the nation is as a whole. I think this occupation is really a statement that they are dissatisfied with all the choices that we've been given," said Ivan Burghart, an activist from St. Louis who mingled with others at the group's Des Moines headquarters.

Occupy Des Moines organizer Jess Mazour, 24, said protesters wanted candidates to address issues ranging from campaign finance reform to college debt to the home foreclosure crisis. She said the weeklong set of actions marked a new phase for the nationwide Occupy movement, and would be a test of whether activists could flex political muscle as one group.

The group insists it will practice non-violence, and activists were going through civil disobedience training Tuesday. Still, police fear scuffles could break out between frustrated candidates' supporters and protesters at events.

Already, the tactics have annoyed candidates and angered supporters.

When Occupy activists started chants against Bachmann at an Iowa City diner last week, campaign aides blared Christmas songs from a sound system to drown them out. That prompted one activist to yell in the face of a Republican organizer to turn down the music, and the restaurant manager called police as tensions rose. Bachmann soon departed - and her supporters left upset by what had transpired.

Stephany Hoffelt, a member of Occupy Iowa City, said protesters believed the in-your-face tactics were justified because their message hasn't gotten through in the past.

"It's perfectly appropriate if you were listening to what we were saying," Hoffelt said of the group's chant blasting Bachmann's positions on health care and taxes. "She is part of the 1 percent."

Protesters with Occupy Des Moines startled Gingrich when he started speaking at a news conference at the Capitol this month, surprising him from behind and shouting "put people first," before being ushered out. Protesters later trailed Gingrich through the Capitol halls and taunted him. "You can run but you can't hide," one said.

Gingrich dismissed them as the "one-tenth of one percent" and noted he'd been similarly heckled during an earlier stop in Iowa City. "All noise, no thought, tried to drown out conversation," he said.

In the Des Moines suburb of Urbandale, where Gingrich, Bachmann and former U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum, have campaign offices, police met with staffers to discuss how to handle protests.

Urbandale police Lt. Kent Knopf said offices may keep their doors locked to prevent sit-ins, and he advised campaign aides to call his department if they want protesters to leave. Knopf said protesters would be cited for trespassing if they ignore orders to leave or camp directly outside offices instead of a public space within 15 feet of the street.

"It's a waste of everybody's energy for what they are trying to accomplish," Knopf said. "They think they're doing something. We'll see if it makes a difference or not, but it hasn't yet."


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OCCUPY_IOWA_CAUCUSES?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-12-27-16-06-38

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Let the games begin
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2011, 08:10:53 PM »
   I really realllllllly want to see freedom of speech.

    But I expect respect for freedom of speech to be a two way street.

    Newt has struck the killer cord, less thought can't be corrected by greater volume.

      The Occupy guys ought be interviewed now and then, so that their thinking can be discerned.

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Let the games begin
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2011, 08:19:56 PM »
I fear a confrontation between the Owwies and GOP supporters whether establicans or tea partiers. I think the GOP will come out on the bad end of the media descriptors. And i think that may be a goal of the Owwies and their behind the scenes string pullers.


Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Let the games begin
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2011, 08:33:28 PM »
I fear a confrontation between the Owwies and GOP supporters whether establicans or tea partiers. I think the GOP will come out on the bad end of the media descriptors. And i think that may be a goal of the Owwies and their behind the scenes string pullers.


     Even so, I want freedom of speech to be the rule.

       If one of the sides is cowardly , or even worse, empty headed.

        Maximum oppurtunity for this to be shown should be allowed.

          Imagine Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. in a real debate with Stoner or Bull Conner. It is too bad this never happened , the diffrence in intellect would have been obvious to any listener.

            Very likely there are no intellectual heavyweights availible and the contest will be between trite vs simple and emotional vs  sullen.

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Let the games begin
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2011, 08:41:24 PM »
I doubt that we shall hear any great debate between Republicans and Owwies. I agree it would be amusing to hear.

I recall that when I lived in Washington State, there was a debate between a crypto Fascist right winger named Jowe Pyne and Bettina Apethaker, the daughter of a three time Communist Party USA candidate for president. Bettina tore Pyne a new one. In fact, several new ones. She was never invited back.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Let the games begin
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2011, 08:55:57 PM »
  Oh yes!

    The reason that lots of Politicians avoid debate is the stakes,... too high.

     Anybody can have a bad day, did you get a look at Rick Perry forgetting one of his central themes mid statement?

      But what could be better for observing the canadate under pressure ?

      I woud like to see non canadates also in this sort of ritual combat, the great thinkers of our day, and the huge mistake makers together .

     The world is electronicly connected so well that a word spoken anywhere can take on its own life and be heard everywhere, but what do we seek and pay for and spread ?  99.99% drivel.

     What is our excuse?


      Perhaps if the dabate were presented as a part of a larger sporting event?

      Let the canadates participate in strong debate , then they can all climb into fortified cars for a bit of demolition derby.  Live mikes the whole time.

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Let the games begin
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2011, 09:06:30 PM »
Cain failing to explain why he didn't agree with Obama's actions in Libya was a classic, compared with Perry's stupid gaffe.It was longer in duration and first painful;, then comedic to watch.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Let the games begin
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2011, 09:20:28 PM »
Cain failing to explain why he didn't agree with Obama's actions in Libya was a classic, compared with Perry's stupid gaffe.It was longer in duration and first painful;, then comedic to watch.


    It is hard to have an opinion on everything.  I think that whoever I choose as my favoriate is gonna have to be forgiven something.

     I hope I don't need to forgive too much.

     I still like Herman Cain, I don't know if he is guilty or innocent of what he is accused of , I don't even know how my attitude would change if I did know.

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Let the games begin
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2011, 10:26:39 PM »
Forgiving Cain his dalliances would be easier for me than forgiving his ignorance and pomposity. He was too proud to be concerned with uz beckybeckystanstan. It may not be necessary for a president top memorize the names of all the world's leaders, but to make fun of those who do know such things indicates that he would also be unable to distinguish between knowledgeable advisers and knownothing advisers. Remember Douglas Feith, who was sure that the Iraqis would welcome us with open arms? Rememvber the swarm of rightwingers who wanted to recreate Iraq as a Libertarian Utopia?

Cain has vanished from the list of contenders. He can now retire, or perhaps make more money from his motivational speeches.  He can write a book. But will he ever darklen the door of the White House? As they say in Berlin: "Nein, nein, nein".
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Let the games begin
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2011, 11:16:11 PM »
  I think that Herman Cain made a good point .

   He should not be concerned abot the politics of the antipodes any more than that they impact American intrests.

    Not all knoledge is pertanant to use, his strong suit was Math and the United States, much more important than having a strong understanding of phrenology or Byzantium and Zanzibar.

    The US is a country in Budget crisis, a mathmaticianand a businessman is much more what we need than an expert of any other kind, if he would earn now a CPA I would call him perfect.

   Newt Gingritch is less pompus and as a Historian has a grand understanding of how the world works, but he is too ready to compromise and middlefind, I don't like him as well because I think he is likely to compromise and find the center point with people who treat economics as a form of magic.

      American economic policy needs to be treated as an engineering problem, not something that the right attitude and hard wishing will fix.

       Expert politicians have a better polish , but what does that do for us?

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Let the games begin
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2011, 12:14:51 PM »
Newt Gingritch is less pompus and as a Historian has a grand understanding of how the world works, but he is too ready to compromise and middlefind, I don't like him as well because I think he is likely to compromise and find the center point with people who treat economics as a form of magic.

Newt is an unprincipled crackpot. He is every bit as pompous as the now defunct Cain. He would sell his grandmother into white slavery to be president. He is hopelessly pussywhipped by Calllista. Every Sunday, he has to fly back so she can sing in a church choir.

He wouold make a wretched president. But he will not be given the opportunity.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."