Now...it's all about the spending

[sirs]

So why do you bother to come to a debate forum, if you chose to remain ignorant in debating?  I know who I would answer the questions, especially in how important a debt ceiling is, thus I'd never advocate abolishing it.  I also think Reid was right on target, when he was criticizing the raising of it 

How does a hard core liberal answer them....why is there a debt ceiling and why is DC making such a big deal of it, if we can simply "do away with it", as you say??

[BT]

What is a hard core liberal? And what is the history of the debt ceiling?

Have these fights been going on forever?

[sirs]

What is a hard core liberal?

(sirs points to Xo, as an example)

[BT]

Well that is the problem.

He isn't.

He certainly doesn't live like one.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I have a very conservative lifestyle, and by conservative, I mean I conserve my resources quite well.

I have no outstanding debt. My house in a less than elegant neighborhood is paid off. I have always done my own taxes and handled all my own finances. My investments have always exceeded the S&P 500 on average.

Most of my needs are met by my Social Security payments, which I started collecting at age 67.

My car is a 1985 Mercedes Diesel wagon with 221,000 miles.

I have no central AC and have never bought a new car, stove, refrigerator, washer or dryer. I have made no car payments since 1973. When I bought my house, I assumed a mortgage and avoided real estate commissions, "origination fees" and other crap. I have owned 16 cars and bought all but two for cash and none from any dealer.

I shop online and at thrift stores. I never order wine in any restaurant, because it is a scam.

I contribute to worthy charities, including the local NPR and PBS stations.

I never put a bumper sticker on my car.

Reagan's campaign gurus apparently decided that if I owned stock and asked me for a contribution in 1980, I stuck the postpaid envelope to a neatly wrapped brick, dropped it off at the post office, and the GOP never bothered me again.

[sirs]

Well that is the problem.

He isn't.


He certainly doesn't live like one.

His rhetoric demonstates otherwise.  But I'm game to be shown where I'm wrong.  What solidly conservative position does he advocate?  Being ridid with their finances is hardly a conservative position, just smart.  Too bad the Government can't follow suit.  I guess they don't have to be, when they forcibly can take, via taxation (which he advocates at every turn), nor do we have access to a printing press to just pump out dollars (withiout being arrested for counterfeiting)

So, by all means, show me how his positions/advocations don't equate to being a hard core liberal

[BT]

Living within your means is precisely a conservative position.

Live and let live is another.

I have seen XO advocate both.

[sirs]

I have YET to see even ONE conservative ideal he openly supports/advocates, and no, being frugal isn't one of them, not when he turns around and openly supports the taxation of anything everything "rich", just because they are.  Please, show me where I'm wrong

[BT]

Please explain why living frugally is not a conservative attribute?.

[sirs]

Lemme try this again...show me how his positions/advocations don't equate to being a hard core liberal.  Give me one conservative position he pushes, please.  Here's a hint, there are plenty of non-frugal conservatives, who are staunchly conservative.  Living within one's means is admirable, but not some defacto Conservative position, especially if its supplimented by rhetoric that supports that government be as big as it needs to be, and screw anything frugal   

So, back to square 1.....show me how his positions/advocations don't equate to being a hard core liberal?? 

[BT]

Let's try this again. Explain why living frugally is not a conservative attribute. I'm curious because your stance re: the debt ceiling runs counter to that. Perhaps you are not the conservative you think you are.

Here's another. He avoids taxes however he can within the law. That is almost right out of Norquists toolbox.

[sirs]

So you don't have anything.  That's kinda what I thought.  (and I already explained how living frugally is one thing, but supporting government living completely un-frugally is at the heart, a very liberal position.  But then again you knew that, which begs the question, why are you even dragging this out??)

[BT]

Au contraire. I have given you two solid examples of his conservative lifestyle.

You seem to have come up empty  as far as

1. Defining a hardcore liberal
2. Explaining how XO conforms to that definition.

Your failure to do so speaks volumes.

[sirs]

Not quite....I asked for conservative positions he PUSHES.  You provided me 2 examples you can apply to anyone that wants to take care of their money.......scrooge comes to mind, but that's NOT a defacto conservative position.  That's just being smart with their own money.  A hard core liberal is someone who ADVOCATES POLICIES THAT ARE EXTREMELY LIBERAL AND IDEOLOGICALLY LEFT. 

It has squat to do with living frugally.  IF he also openly support that the Government do the same, THEN you might have a leg to stand on 

I've done precisely what I referenced, and you have yet to demonstrate even ONE conservative position he supports.  Not one.  Speaking volumes, indeed

[BT]

A hard core liberal is someone who ADVOCATES POLICIES THAT ARE EXTREMELY LIBERAL AND IDEOLOGICALLY LEFT. 

Define extremely liberal.