Author Topic: Resegregate  (Read 5481 times)

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Michael Tee

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Re: Resegregate
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2007, 02:11:06 AM »
<<Lester Maddox ran aganst corruption , his most positive achevement was the reduction of speed traps , you have not quoted him here. His Ax handle noteriety is the main thing I think he got wrong , but he was no more wrong about race than you are about economics , a person has to be tolerant of such foibles.>>

I dont' think you can compare my grasp of economics with Maddox' views on racial issues.  I never studied economics and often when I venture an opinion on the subject, I began with the warning that I didn't really know the subject.  Maddox presented himself as enough of an expert on the racial issue that he should be the Governor of the State of Georgia based on his racial views.  He never told anyone he didn't know much about race.

Secondly, I don't actually see where I'm wrong about economics.  Frankly I think I'm very much right about economics and I can't recall a single discussion here on this board regarding an economic subject where I was forced to admit that you or anyone else was right and that I was wrong.

I think it's beyond bizarre that when you have an individual who is so sick and deranged as to advocate beating other men and women with axe handles for daring to insist on being served in a public restaurant that you can point to his "reduction of speed traps" (is this some kind of joke??)  and opposition to "corruption" (who the hell isn't opposed to corruption?) as sufficient reason to overlook or minimize his racism and brutality.  It's just another instance of what I complain about here, the right wing's total lack of any credible sense of proportion.  It's like asking someone to weigh Hitler's work in creating the Autobahnen against his role in the Holocaust.

Plane

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Re: Resegregate
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2007, 02:49:23 AM »
    You havn't yet quoted Lester Maddox , you think you know him from the description his detractors put forward , it is very like my being uninterested in any new information about Ho Chi Minh I have heard quite enough about him already thank you.

    You have stated that Communism is based on love and cares for the people , I have read the same line used in justification of American Slavery . The people trapped within it needed it for their own good.

   I can see an equivelience that you don't seem sensitive to. Economic mistakes can enslave persons or nations as well as any other excuse.
   
   Lester Maddox never studyed race in a simular fashion to your never haveing studyed economics , he was a repository of misconceptions that were commonly held and that seemed to be working for him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lester_Maddox
Accomplishments While in Public Service
Salary increases (in dollars) during four years as governor were more than for the two previous administrations combined.
Percentage of salary increase for elementary and secondary teachers was a record breaker that was not reached again until fifteen years later
In higher education, the State Board of Regents received the highest budget increase of the latter half of the 20th century; and has been reported as likely the largest percentage increase for higher education of any state during the four fiscal years of the Maddox approved state budget appropriations.
Dollars gained for new and expanded industry (during the Maddox Administration) equaled that of the five previous four year terms from 1947 through 1966.
According to southerncurrents.com, Maddox "left the Office of Governor with a favorable poll rating of above 84% and won the Office of Lieutenant Governor in a landslide vote of over 73%, which remains the greatest percentage of votes for any governor or lieutenant governor against a Republican opponent in a Georgia General Election". [3]
He appointed more African Americans to state government positions than any other governor before him.
Appointed the first African American to head a state department (the Board of Corrections).
Named the first black GBI agent.
Named the first black state trooper.
Ordered state troopers to desist from using the word "nigger".

Expanded food stamp programs from 13 to 158 counties.
He integrated the lines of farmer's markets throughout the state. [4]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/06/25/maddox.dead/index.html

Maddox said until the end he never regretted any of the stands he took. But those who worked for and supported Maddox said his stand on segregation was more an expression of his eccentric individualism than any hatred of blacks.

Former Georgia House Speaker Tom Murphy, who was Maddox's floor leader in the House during his term as governor, told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, "He had a reputation as a segregationist, but he told us he was not a segregationist, but that you should be able to associate with whoever you wanted. He went on to do more for African-Americans than any governor of Georgia up until that time."


http://www.southerncurrents.com/misc/maddox.htm


"The guy that beat me," Carter explains, "was Lester Maddox, a racist who won the race because he would stand in front of his restaurant with a pick handle and anybody who came up that was black, he would beat him over the head with it."

Maddox shakes his head. In a quiet voice, his eyes still focused on the TV, he says, "Nobody ever got hit with a pick handle at my restaurant."

"Nobody ever swung anything," he says. Not him, not his friends, not his 20 white employees, not his 40 black employees. A racist? "Would a racist hire 40 African-Americans?" he asks. Would a racist appoint more blacks to state government during his term in office than any Georgia governor before him?

Would a racist, asks Bob Short, Maddox's former press secretary, join up with a black musician and play nightclubs for 20 months under the headline of "The Governor and the Dishwasher"?

"There are two Lester Maddoxes," says the former governor, who often refers to himself in the third person. "One created by God -- one created by the media." If he believed all the cruel things said about him over the years, he wouldn't have voted for himself either.

So why would Jimmy Carter, after all he's been through -- globetrotting for peace and human rights, all that nasty business with the 62 American hostages in Iran -- still be bothered by a little guy named Lester Maddox?




[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]


Perhaps Carter is bothered because Lesters civil rights record is better?


 
   

Michael Tee

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Re: Resegregate
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2007, 11:01:56 AM »
I think maybe what you're trying to say is that Maddox talked the talk but didn't walk the walk.

Sorry, I don't buy any of it.  When you're on TV nightly news brandishing an axe handle night after night to use on any black man or woman ballsy enough to demand their rights, that's walking the walk.  He broadcast and reinforced a message of violence and hate that must have been acted out thousands of times on blacks out there in the American night where the television cameras weren't rolling.  Just as the words of Winston Churchill inspired millions of decent men and women to give their best in the fight against fascism, so the words of Lester  Maddox must have inspired millions of evil white racist Southerners to do their absolute worst in the fight against human rights.

It's only words?  Adolf Hitler was "only words."  Nobody's buying that shit.

As far as "more state jobs for blacks," "first black GBI agent," etc. this was more of a surrender to the inevitable than any heroic act in defence of civil rights.  The "40 black employees" was particularly hilarious.  I remember well a great restaurant in Detroit, Boesky's, on 12th Street (run by the family of Wall Street's Ivan Boesky) - - an all-white waiting staff and all-black cleaners and busboys.  I bet all the kitchen staff were black too.  Yep, that man was some humanitarian.

_JS

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Re: Resegregate
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2007, 11:33:56 AM »
Let's see:

He walked off the Dick Cavett show when challeneged on his views of segregation.



Here's Maddox with his pistol the day after the Civil Rights Act was signed, "defending" his restaurant from three blacks.

One hell of a guy.

Being moderate with blacks upon taking office was not uncommon for Dixiecrats. It should be noted though that most actually felt some remorse for their segregationist views later in life.
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Lanya

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Re: Resegregate
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2007, 03:24:30 PM »
I guess if you replaced "Black"  with  "Scots-Irish" it might lead to a few second thoughts.
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Michael Tee

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Re: Resegregate
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2007, 04:55:01 PM »
<<I guess if you replaced "Black"  with  "Scots-Irish" it might lead to a few second thoughts.>>

If Maddox had pulled his shit on the Scots-Irish, his future life-span from that point forward would have been measured in seconds.

Plane

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Re: Resegregate
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2007, 01:02:31 AM »
I think maybe what you're trying to say is that Maddox talked the talk but didn't walk the walk.

Sorry, I don't buy any of it.  When you're on TV nightly news brandishing an axe handle night after night to use on any black man or woman ballsy enough to demand their rights, that's walking the walk.  He broadcast and reinforced a message of violence and hate that must have been acted out thousands of times on blacks out there in the American night where the television cameras weren't rolling.  Just as the words of Winston Churchill inspired millions of decent men and women to give their best in the fight against fascism, so the words of Lester  Maddox must have inspired millions of evil white racist Southerners to do their absolute worst in the fight against human rights.

It's only words?  Adolf Hitler was "only words."  Nobody's buying that shit.


You assume this.

You really can' quote him at all?

Plane

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Re: Resegregate
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2007, 01:04:25 AM »
I guess if you replaced "Black"  with  "Scots-Irish" it might lead to a few second thoughts.


No , that woud be his point exactly.


Plane

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Re: Resegregate
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2007, 01:10:04 AM »
<<I guess if you replaced "Black"  with  "Scots-Irish" it might lead to a few second thoughts.>>

If Maddox had pulled his shit on the Scots-Irish, his future life-span from that point forward would have been measured in seconds.



I would bet that at this point you have never read so much as a paragraph of actuall Lester Maddox 's own words.


Would you let me get away with that?


I do not think that Lester Maddox was right ,but I have a better idea of what he was wrong about than you do.

Michael Tee

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Re: Resegregate
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2007, 01:37:29 AM »
<<I would bet that at this point you have never read so much as a paragraph of actuall Lester Maddox 's own words.>>

I hope you wouldn't bet a whole lot of money on it, because you would lose.  In Lester Maddox' heyday, he was quoted extensively in the Toronto Star and TIME magazine, which at that time I read cover to cover as they came out.  I probably read every Lester Maddox quote there was, and he gave interviews to anyone and everyone who asked.  There was nothing he said that was exceptionally memorable, although I certainly gathered from everything that he said that it was his fucking restaurant and he didn't have to let no fucking niggers eat there if he didn't want to, although I'm sure the language was a bit cleaned up for the media accounts.


<<Would you let me get away with that?>>

Try me.  I suspect like anything else it would depend on the circumstances.  Like, were you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me?

<<I do not think that Lester Maddox was right ,but I have a better idea of what he was wrong about than you do.>>

Well, if you do, then I'm all ears. Share it with me.  I thought he was wrong to threaten to shoot and/or beat people up with axe handles for trying to eat in his fucking restaurant, but hell, maybe that passes for sharing God's love in Dixie, what does a dumb Canuck like me know about such things anyway?

Plane

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Re: Resegregate
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2007, 02:36:59 AM »
<<I would bet that at this point you have never read so much as a paragraph of actuall Lester Maddox 's own words.>>

I hope you wouldn't bet a whole lot of money on it, because you would lose.  In Lester Maddox' heyday, he was quoted extensively in the Toronto Star and TIME magazine, which at that time I read cover to cover as they came out.  I probably read every Lester Maddox quote there was, and he gave interviews to anyone and everyone who asked.  There was nothing he said that was exceptionally memorable, although I certainly gathered from everything that he said that it was his fucking restaurant and he didn't have to let no fucking niggers eat there if he didn't want to, although I'm sure the language was a bit cleaned up for the media accounts.


<<Would you let me get away with that?>>

Try me.  I suspect like anything else it would depend on the circumstances.  Like, were you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me?

<<I do not think that Lester Maddox was right ,but I have a better idea of what he was wrong about than you do.>>

Well, if you do, then I'm all ears. Share it with me.  I thought he was wrong to threaten to shoot and/or beat people up with axe handles for trying to eat in his fucking restaurant, but hell, maybe that passes for sharing God's love in Dixie, what does a dumb Canuck like me know about such things anyway?


That you do not know what he said or did is evident.

You just have it wrong.

He never hit or shot anyone , he never advocated hitting or shooting anyone , the only thing you have right is that he was against races sitting down to eat together.

To protest against being forced to serve customers he didnt want to, he sold his restraunt rather than continue.

I wish that all the worlds wrongheaded people were as gentle as this one , he was not right , but he was civilsed about it.

And once he became Govenor , he became te best gvenor for the minoritys of Georgia that we had  ever had till Zell Miller was elected.

You let me know nothing about you but quotes selected by people who hate you and will I know you well?

I would have encouraged him to join the desegregtion that Atlanta was busy undergoing at the time  , so I would not be on his side, but he was a good oponent not a bad one .

Michael Tee

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Re: Resegregate
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2007, 02:44:53 AM »
<<he never advocated hitting or shooting anyone ,>>

He was photographed "defending" his restaurant with a pick handle and in a picture posted by JS with a revolver and the only inference anyone could draw from his posturing was that these would be used agaisnt any black foolish enough to try to enter his restaurant.


<<To protest against being forced to serve customers he didnt want to, he sold his restraunt rather than continue.>>

He didn't even have the guts to act the way he encouraged other white racists to act.  OK for them to shoot people and beat people after he told them he was gonna do it, but he himself was too smart to go to jail for doing it himself.  Yeah, that's admirable.

<<I wish that all the worlds wrongheaded people were as gentle as this one >>,

ROTFLMFAO.  What is so gentle about brandishing a pick handle or a revolver?  Only a fucking psychopath would suggest that racial disputes be resolved with axe handles and revolvers.

Plane

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Re: Resegregate
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2007, 02:59:20 AM »
Let's see:

He walked off the Dick Cavett show when challeneged on his views of segregation.



Here's Maddox with his pistol the day after the Civil Rights Act was signed, "defending" his restaurant from three blacks.

One hell of a guy.

Being moderate with blacks upon taking office was not uncommon for Dixiecrats. It should be noted though that most actually felt some remorse for their segregationist views later in life.

When MT says
Quote
Maddox was basically saying that any black who wanted to be recognized as equal to a white man should be beaten with an axe handle.

He exaggerates very much, can you find a Lester Maddox quote that realy means this?

Quote
Being moderate with blacks upon taking office was not uncommon for Dixiecrats. .

That is Jimmy Carter not Lester Maddox.

Carter got the segregationst vote by just being quiet about his real plans, his might be what George Wllace wanted to do too.
But makeing a statement like that about Lester Maddoxx is just strange. He never backed down or needed to.

Decent Human beings can be wrong about anything , being wrong abut race has caused al ot of very serious problems , but not more than being wrong about economics or religion.

To  accept loss rather than fighting to the death for something that you feel strongly about , requires humility , a sort of humility that makes Lester Madox a hero for haveng and Bull  Conners a villan for lacking.

Imagie Stalin with this sort of Humility ,or George Washington without it.

Lester Maddox was willing to play by the rules even when the rules were busy being changed  in a direction he didn't like.

I have a greater respect for Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. than for Lester Maddox because MLK was a martyer who prevented  a war right here with sheer good exmple ,Lester was wrong on the subject of race .

But........
What purpose is exagerating his problem and pumping up the hate?

Michael Tee

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Re: Resegregate
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2007, 03:06:20 AM »
<<He exaggerates very much, can you find a Lester Maddox quote that realy means this?>>

What quote?  What part of a guy standing in front of his restaurant with an axe handle do you not understand, given the context of the news at the time?

plane, if you didn't get the guy's message loud and clear, you must have been the only man in the country who didn't.

<<Lester Maddox was willing to play by the rules even when the rules were busy being changed  in a direction he didn't like.>>

The rules required him to integrate his restaurant.  There wasn't any rule that required him to intimidate would-be integrators by standing in front of his place with an axe handle.  That is NOT "playing by the rules" as I understand it.  When you find me a rule that says that an owner of a restaurant required by law to integrate can pick up an axe handle and use it to intimidate blacks at the front door, then I'll agree with you.

« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 03:10:42 AM by Michael Tee »

Plane

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Re: Resegregate
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2007, 03:13:18 AM »

He didn't even have the guts to act the way he encouraged other white racists to act.  OK for them to shoot people and beat people after he told them he was gonna do it, but he himself was too smart to go to jail for doing it himself.  Yeah, that's admirable.


You are wrong about this.

He was given power and he did not abuse it , nor did he make powerfull political freinds.

He instructed his troops to be less irrtateing to black people in their speech , he hired black workers as a restrunteur and black department heads as Govenor.

And as yet you have failed to answer my challenge to quote him advocateng violence.

I would not have nearly as much troubble finding quotes in which you advocate violence.

If you understand him so well as a promoter of violence , how do you understand his behavior as govenor?


Remember this we began this with me telling you that my father preerred Bo Calloway to Lester Maddox , if you were talking to my Dad he would not seem like an admirerer of Lester at all.
I was a child at the time  of course but Bo Calloway had a much more progressive attitude about Race than Maddox  and actually won more votes than Maddox I seem to remember hat this was one of the things that . ade him preferable.