Author Topic: Your vote should be counted....  (Read 2876 times)

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sirs

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Your vote should be counted....
« on: February 19, 2008, 06:09:35 PM »
...unless of course we're talking about the Clinton's and votes not going to Hillary.  Not only did I hear how Hillary and company are trying to sway super-delagates, now I'm hearing word from the Clinton camp that according to party rules, delegates aren't really "pledged" to a winner of a caucus.  They can vote how they want as well.........which means they need to switch to Hillary apparently       
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

The_Professor

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Re: Your vote should be counted....
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2008, 09:17:42 PM »
Hey, I told you she would pull out all the stops in order to get THERE. The Clintons are scum...
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"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
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sirs

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Re: Your vote should be counted....
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2008, 12:09:12 AM »
Indeed.  But if she were to pull out a miracle, and win the nomination, you can be sure such "tactics" will be considered impressive and ingenius by the left     :-\
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Your vote should be counted....
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2008, 12:42:09 AM »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

The_Professor

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Re: Your vote should be counted....
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2008, 10:17:37 AM »
Hey, I told you she would pull out all the stops in order to get THERE. The Clintons are scum...

Can ANYONE on even the Left disavow her tactics?
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"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Amianthus

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Re: Your vote should be counted....
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2008, 02:50:06 PM »
now I'm hearing word from the Clinton camp that according to party rules, delegates aren't really "pledged" to a winner of a caucus.  They can vote how they want as well.........which means they need to switch to Hillary apparently       

Well, actually, that's true. A primary election can be binding on delegates (but doesn't have to be) but a caucus is never binding on delegates.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

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Re: Your vote should be counted....
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2008, 02:59:25 PM »
Oh, I realize its true, Ami.  I knew that when I posted my comments.  The point was however that historically if a candidate won a primary/caucus, those delates, by however the individual states partitioned them, are to be "pledged" to the winner.  Superdelegates are supposed to go with the winner as well, but are considered to be those that can change their mind.  But yes, even delegates that are "pledged" to a candidate that wins, due to majority vote, can also change their position.

I'm just giving Xo some grief for all the supposed anger aimed at Bush when even illegal votes weren't being counted, that a "majority" voted for Gore, though the rules specifically reference electoral votes are what get you elected.  The "will of the people supposedly thwarted".  Well, now we have the "will of the people" possibly being thwarted here, but its ok, because the "Democrat party will pick who they want"

Just gotta love that double standard      ;D
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Brassmask

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Re: Your vote should be counted....
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2008, 08:00:27 PM »
Indeed.  But if she were to pull out a miracle, and win the nomination, you can be sure such "tactics" will be considered impressive and ingenius by the left     :-\

Not by this "left", dumbass.

http://www.brassmask.com/news.php

Here we are, again about to select another president. It's come down to the wire in the Democratic Primary and our choices are historic for the nominee: A black man or a white woman. That is historic and powerful but at the same time if we are to be true to liberal, nay supposedly American ideals, then we must ignore those delineations.

While it is only Democrats who are voting for these candidates, it is still a record turnout. Americans are turning out in droves to make their choice between Barak Obama and Hillary Clinton and at this point in the race, they are turning out in some states to choose Obama. That's fine.

In the Tennessee primary, I turned out to cast my vote, mostly against Clinton but that was my reason. When you spend a goodly portion of your free time watching politics like a sport, there comes with that a certain cynicism that everyone has surely seen. My reasoning was not so much that I had fallen into the Obama campaign and was convinced that he was THE candidate for me and that he MUST be made president at all costs.

That was how I felt about Howard Dean and I must now admit that I am still a little heartbroken over that so I was still not ready to fall in love with anyone again. Even if I had not been heartbroken, I'm not sure I would have fallen for any that ran this time but I didn't feel like I was holding my nose to vote for Obama.

Now, we're coming down to the wire. We're getting this thing boiled down to demiglasse now. This morning the Today Show had a clip from CNN where they had Hillary talking about her buzz word "solutions" and beside her was Obama suddenly and he was talking about "hope". The sign on the podium he was at said "CHANGE" thus laying the double-whammy on the electorate.

If this is how they are going to pursue votes then put me down for Hope. Solutions is good. I like Solutions but I have to be really honest, I don't think that Hillary inspires Hope in me. In fact, she inspires too many remembrances of when I had Hope and saw her dash that Hope to Hell and back.

I had Hope when I heard that there was going to be a vote on whether or not to give Bush the authority to invade Iraq. Hillary dashed the Hope that the Senate wouldn't.

I had Hope when I read that candidates were realizing that their vote for the war was wrong and they were now actually apologizing and saying out loud that it was a mistake. I Hoped that Hillary would hear about this and hand out her obligatory apology. She dashed that Hope.

I had really High Hopes when I found a candidate in Howard Dean who not only inspired Hope for the future of our nation but reflected the true heartfelt anger I had and still have over the allowances the Congress had given Bush and the way Bush had conducted this nation's business and destroyed this nation's reputation as compassionate and hopeful for Humanity. Hillary dashed that Hope by working behind the scenes to kneecap Dean at every turn by pushing General Wesley Clark into the race and dividing Dean's base.

Even worse than Hillary's hope dashing is how Hillary and the Clintons have resorted to the same kind of swiftboating that the Republicans have been doing using the Karl Rovian Handbook of Politics. Of course, the Clintons are political aficionados and, of course, I know that they have no compunctions going negative if it gets them what they want but, for years, I had worshiped Former President William Jefferson Clinton.

Whatever his faults, his mistakes, his misguided policies, I had always bought into the idea that he was a decent man and a brilliant orator. Often, I have related the story of how Michelle and i had seen a program on PBS where Clinton, in a small classroom at some Arkansan university had a question and answer session with a class who had been studying his presidency.

It is the kind of spellbinding discussion with a teacher who knows what he is talking about that every human should experience in their lifetime. It wasn't a situation where he enthralled the students and they hung on his every word like fawning sycophants. It was a discussion with a learned elder statesman who wanted to help other to understand his decisions and what he had hoped to gain by those decisions whether he gained it or not.

He listened and he respected those talking and wanting to learn and by doing that he inspired in me hope for humanity.

This, of course, was a different situation than how Obama and Hillary are having to conduct themselves in order to get what they want but it leads me to imagine how the two of them would match up with Bill Clinton if put in that classroom situation in Arkansas. When I do that, I can imagine Obama being exactly like President Clinton had been: respectful, solemn, articulate. When I imagine that situation with Hillary, I really don't hear that. I imagine her listening to the question while shaking her head and waiting for her turn to talk. I imagine her trying to fake it to make it and getting through this to the next thing that maybe seems more important to her.

Now, should I base my vote on this imagined situation? No, and I didn't but it is only in seeing how the Clintons have gone so negative in the last few days that I mention it here. Worst of all is their injection into the media the idea that somehow since Clinton has been in Washington for years that she is "ready to lead on Day One".

This to me is the most despicable and utterly disrespectful of Democracy anyone has said about an opponent that I can think of. Sure, there have been lots worse personal attack like the swiftboating of Kerry (not that he was any great shakes) and the utter garbage of attacks on Max Cleland a few years ago, but Hillary's idea that since Obama hasn't been there a long time, he can't start leading on Day One.

Sow's ass to her.

The bombastic, dumbfounding beauty of American Democracy is that anyone, listen to me, ANYONE, can become president. Sure we look for indicators, metrics and characteristics for those we vote for but it starts from the tiny, diamond-hard kernel of belief and truth that anyone who is over 35 and a native-born American can become the leader of this nation (and titular lead, for now) of the free world. For Hillary to say that Obama will somehow be not ready is hogwash and indicative of her elitist attitude towards power.

So, I re-iterate my Sow's Ass to Hillary.

There's nothing that we Tennesseans can do about it now except make our beliefs clear to those who still have control over the primary. My fear is that Obama will go on to win more of the delegates via the popular votes in the states and then Hillary will strong-arm, blackmail and woo Super-Delegates into handing the thing over to her in whatever big top circus of a convention they have later this year in Denver, Colorado.

If that happens, I intend to make it this blog's and my own personal life's work to tearing down the Democratic Party. That's not a threat, that's a promise.

Brassmask

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Re: Your vote should be counted....
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2008, 08:04:43 PM »
now I'm hearing word from the Clinton camp that according to party rules, delegates aren't really "pledged" to a winner of a caucus.  They can vote how they want as well.........which means they need to switch to Hillary apparently       

Well, actually, that's true. A primary election can be binding on delegates (but doesn't have to be) but a caucus is never binding on delegates.

I also believe that is true but my understanding is that the delegates take a vow or something and while that isn't really binding, the parties tend to threaten everything but death if they don't vote the way their supposed to.

Amianthus

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Re: Your vote should be counted....
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2008, 08:10:31 PM »
I also believe that is true but my understanding is that the delegates take a vow or something and while that isn't really binding, the parties tend to threaten everything but death if they don't vote the way their supposed to.

Same concept as "faithless electors."
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

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Re: Your vote should be counted....
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2008, 08:32:08 PM »
Indeed.  But if she were to pull out a miracle, and win the nomination, you can be sure such "tactics" will be considered impressive and ingenius by the left     :-\

Not by this "left", dumbass.

Nice............................     ::)    I'm trying to remember the last time I flung personal insults, just right out of the blue, at Brass.  Oh yea, I haven't

« Last Edit: February 20, 2008, 09:25:22 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Brassmask

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Re: Your vote should be counted....
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2008, 09:24:59 PM »
Indeed.  But if she were to pull out a miracle, and win the nomination, you can be sure such "tactics" will be considered impressive and ingenius by the left     :-\

Not by this "left", dumbass.

Nice............................     ::)    I'm trying to remember the last time I flung personal insults, just right out of the blue, at Brass.  Oh yea, I haven't

Look, I really try hard to refrain from "personal insults" but I usually have a point of taking crap from the likes of people like you.  You go out of your way make some dumbass remark about "the left" at all hours of the day.

Sorry.

sirs

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Re: Your vote should be counted....
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2008, 09:26:40 PM »
Didn't realize you had been designated the official poster child of "the left".  Apology accepted
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Your vote should be counted....
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2008, 10:53:46 AM »
Didn't realize you had been designated the official poster child of "the left".  Apology accepted


Brassmask is of the left , but he is not all of the Left.

I think there are still enough Left left to carry their end .

But what will happen if the official left acts to displease a lot of leftists?

Will they form third partys as Ross Perot did and divide the left the way he devided the right?


Perot did us some good , he got us spanked when we really needed a spanking .
Are the Democrats in need of such a disaplineary measure?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Your vote should be counted....
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2008, 12:41:53 PM »
The GOP needs the spanking, not the Democrats.

They were the ones who f*cked up.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."