McCain Shines at Saddleback Forum

[Religious Dick]

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August 18, 2008
McCain Shines at Saddleback Forum
By Michael Gerson

WASHINGTON -- It is now clear why Barack Obama has refused John McCain's offer of joint town hall appearances during the fall campaign. McCain is obviously better at them.

Pastor Rick Warren's Saddleback Civil Forum on the Presidency -- two hours on Saturday night evenly divided between the relaxed, tieless candidates -- was expected to be a sideshow. McCain and Obama would make their specialized appeals to evangelicals as if they were an interest group such as organized labor or the National Rifle Association. Evangelicals would demonstrate, in turn, that they are not rubes and know-nothings. And Americans would turn en masse to watch the Olympics.

What took place instead under Warren's precise and revealing questioning was the most important event so far of the 2008 campaign -- a performance every voter should seek out on the Internet and watch.

First, the forum previewed the stylistic battle lines of the contest ahead, and it should give Democrats pause. Obama was fluent, cool and cerebral -- the qualities that made Adlai Stevenson interesting but did not make him president. Obama took care to point out that he had once been a professor at the University of Chicago, but that bit of biography was unnecessary. His whole manner smacks of chalkboards and campus ivy. Issues from stem cell research to the nature of evil are weighed, analyzed and explained instead of confronted.

This approach has a genuine appeal to some voters, especially of a more liberal bent, who believe there is a nuance shortage in American life. But on Saturday night it did not compare well with McCain, who was decisive, passionate and surprisingly personal. The candidate who once seemed incapable of the confessional style of politics talked at length of Vietnam experiences and his adopted daughter from Bangladesh. Asked by Warren about his greatest moral failure, McCain's response -- "the failure of my first marriage" -- had an abrupt and disarming authenticity. The account of his hardest decision -- refusing release from captivity ahead of others who had been imprisoned longer -- remains shocking in its valor. And McCain's habit of understatement -- he described the excruciating rope torture he experienced in Vietnam as "very uncomfortable" -- makes his stories even more effective.

Second, the Warren forum demonstrated how difficult it will be for Obama to appeal to religious and conservative voters as the campaign proceeds. His outreach to evangelical voters is obviously sincere, but he doesn't actually agree with them on much. In the course of the forum, he endorsed federal funding for embryonic stem cell research in spite of the existence of humane and promising alternatives. He proposed controversial government regulations on faith-based charities that accept federal funds. He attacked Justice Clarence Thomas as unqualified and defended his vote against the confirmation of the widely admired Chief Justice John Roberts. Obama deserves points for honesty on all these issues, but it is possible to be honestly off-putting.

Obama's response on abortion -- the issue that remains his largest obstacle to evangelical support -- bordered on a gaffe. Asked by Warren at what point in its development a baby gains "human rights," Obama said that such determinations were "above my pay grade" -- a silly answer to a sophisticated question. If Obama is genuinely unsure about this matter, he (and the law) should err in favor of protecting innocent life. If Obama believes that a baby in the womb lacks human rights, he should say so -- pro-choice men and women must affirm (as many sincerely do) that developing life has a lesser status. Here the professor failed the test of logic.

For many evangelicals, the theoretical Obama -- the Obama of hope and unity -- is intriguing, even appealing. But this opinion is not likely to improve upon closer inspection of his policy views. Obama is one of those rare political figures who seems to grow smaller the closer we approach him. "I want people to know me well," said Obama at the forum. Among religious conservatives, that may not be an advantage.

Finally, McCain's performance at the Warren forum helps change the political psychology going into the conventions. Republicans have spent the last few weeks pleasantly surprised at the closeness of the presidential race. But they have generally chalked this up to Obama's weakness, not McCain's strength. After Saturday night, even Republicans most skeptical of McCain must conclude: "Perhaps we aren't doomed after all."

Of such small hopes are large upsets made.
michaelgerson@cfr.org

Copyright 2008, Washington Post Writers Group
Page Printed from: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/08/small_hopes_and_large_upsets.html at August 18, 2008 - 01:54:10 PM PDT

[Michael Tee]

Contains some valid criticisms of Obama - - his "above my pay grade" answer was particularly lame and won't fool many people.  Simple people who AREN'T university professors EXPECT answers from the profs - - they may or may not LIKE the answer they get but they do want answers.

I thought he was at his best in discussing SCOTUS appointments he WOULDN'T have made.  As a Professor of Constitutional Law, he sure as hell knew what he was talking about and it showed.

I thought confessing to marital infidelity leading to the loss of a first marriage was a deadly blunder to make in front of an evangelical audience particularly where Obama is so obviously married to and in love with his first wife.  It's like telling the audience, Hey, don't trust ME, I stabbed my own wife in the back.  I just don't get it.  I also felt that his making a big deal out of adopting a non-white baby could backfire - - like the guy is an emotional lightweight who picks and chooses babies by colour as if they were jellybeans, and always with an eye on the electorate - - LOOK, we picked a BLACK one!!!

I felt McCain was like one of those crochety, opinionated old men who puts a lot of piss and vinegar into his opinions but isn't particularly current or even well-informed.  Barack came across as much more academic, analytical and informed.  I felt like HE was the guy who should be making the big decisions, not the crochety old guy who seemed long on uninformed opinion, but short on fact.

[sirs]

I thought he was at his best in discussing SCOTUS appointments he WOULDN'T have made.  As a Professor of Constitutional Law, he sure as hell knew what he was talking about and it showed.

Obama on Clarence Thomas
August 18, 2008

Barack Obama likes to portray himself as a centrist politician who wants to unite the country, but occasionally his postpartisan mask slips. That was the case at Saturday night's Saddleback Church forum, when Mr. Obama chose to demean Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.

Pastor Rick Warren asked each Presidential candidate which Justices he would not have nominated. Mr. McCain said, "with all due respect" the four most liberal sitting Justices because of his different judicial philosophy.

Mr. Obama took a lower road, replying first that "that's a good one," and then adding that "I would not have nominated Clarence Thomas. I don't think that he, I don't think that he was a strong enough jurist or legal thinker at the time for that elevation. Setting aside the fact that I profoundly disagree with his interpretation of a lot of the Constitution." The Democrat added that he also wouldn't have appointed Antonin Scalia, and perhaps not John Roberts, though he assured the audience that at least they were smart enough for the job.

So let's see. By the time he was nominated, Clarence Thomas
- had worked in the Missouri Attorney General's office,
- served as an Assistant Secretary of Education,
- ran the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
- and sat for a year on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, the nation's second most prominent court.  Since his "elevation" to the High Court in 1991, he has also shown himself to be a principled and scholarly jurist.

Meanwhile, as he bids to be America's Commander in Chief, Mr. Obama
- isn't yet four years out of the Illinois state Senate,
- has never held a hearing of note of his U.S. Senate subcommittee,
- and had an unremarkable record as both a "community organizer" and law school lecturer.

Justice Thomas's judicial credentials compare favorably to Mr. Obama's Presidential r?sum? by any measure. And when it comes to rising from difficult circumstances, Justice Thomas's rural Georgian upbringing makes Mr. Obama's story look like easy street.

Even more troubling is what the Illinois Democrat's answer betrays about his political habits of mind. Asked a question he didn't expect at a rare unscripted event, the rookie candidate didn't merely say he disagreed with Justice Thomas. Instead, he instinctively reverted to the leftwing clich? that the Court's black conservative isn't up to the job while his white conservative colleagues are.

So much for civility in politics and bringing people together. And no wonder Mr. Obama's advisers have refused invitations for more such open forums, preferring to keep him in front of a teleprompter, where he won't let slip what he really believes.


Typical Leftist Politican at work



And on a side note, I still haven't seen it, but boy on boy, have I heard many people who have, and sorry to say Tee, even those kool-aide drinking Oblatherites were very disappointed with how poorly Obama came across, and how much more convicted and princpled McCain was in comparison

[Michael Tee]

<<So let's see. By the time he was nominated, Clarence Thomas
- had worked in the Missouri Attorney General's office,>>

All ya need is a law degree.  Any law school will do.  The Missouri AG's office is a law firm like any other, and not a particularly prominent one.  This is like saying he found a job in a law office.  In fact, that's exactly what it is saying.

<<- served as an Assistant Secretary of Education,>>

a purely political appointment, and the Republicans were happy to find an Uncle Tom who would serve them

<<- ran the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission>>

Same thing, they needed an Uncle Tom, and boy did they have the job for him.

<<- and sat for a year on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, the nation's second most prominent court.  >>

ONE YEAR judicial experience?  Boy he must have made one hell of a judge in that one year to qualify for the Supreme Court, but it's funny, no one seems to remember a single judgement of note that he made in that year.  BTW, who says this is the nation's second most prominent court?  That sounds suspiciously like a giant crock to me.  Even if that is true, it sure as hell isn't due to Obama.

<<Since his "elevation" to the High Court in 1991, he has also shown himself to be a principled and scholarly jurist.>>

BULLSHIT.  He's proven to be a lackey of the conservative movement, almost never daring to engage in oral exchanges with counsel and of course fully participating in the theft of the election in Bush v Gore, which was exactly the reason he was picked for the job in the first place - - to vote politics over law any and every time the opportunity came up.
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<<Meanwhile, as he bids to be America's Commander in Chief, Mr. Obama
- isn't yet four years out of the Illinois state Senate,>>

Oh, OK, then you GOT the message --  he's NOT a Beltway insider.  He's gonna be a CHANGE.  The guys with the experience brought you the disastrous war in Iraq, remember?  Which the "inexperienced" Obama had the wisdom to oppose from the outset.  $500 trillion down the drain and virtually nothing to show for it.  Looks to me like all that "experience" added up together ain't worth shit, while one man, with principle and integrity, and the ONLY man who is presently a candidate, had the balls to oppose it.  While your fucking economy tanks and 47 million Americans can't afford health insurance and your health care system is still fucked up despite spending more per capita on it than any other nation in the world.  I think some of the voters won't hold it against him, that he's not a long-term Washington insider.

<<- has never held a hearing of note of his U.S. Senate subcommittee>>

The Republican Congress isn't known for assigning important Senate subcommittees to the chairmanship of rookie Democratic Senators.  Doesn't mean that he's not ten times the man that his moronic opponent is.

<<- and had an unremarkable record as both a "community organizer" . . . >>

Community organizers don't usually become national heroes.  Apart from Saul Alinsky and Jane Jacobs, I don't think anyone can even think of the names of any community organizer from any historical or current period of time in the U.S.A.   It's meant to be unsung, unglamorous, hard, gritty work on behalf of the poor and the oppressed and I think people will respect him for it.  More than they'll respect some rich and pampered ass-hole who dropped napalm bombs on the poorest of the poor because they had the temerity to fight to free their own land from foreign occupation and invasion.

<< . . .and law school lecturer. >>

unremarkable?  I suppose YOU could hold a job as Professor (NOT "lecturer" which is a whole different appointment) of Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago (a top law school) for TWELVE YEARS?  Or McCain?  Unremarkable, my ass.  Only someone with absolutely no understanding of how the world works would consider that an "unremarkable" accomplishment.  It puts him in the top echelon of the legal profession.  It is in itself a remarkable achievement.

[Michael Tee]

<<That just goes to show us just how little you know about Christians. Even Christians are sinners. YOU KNOW I THINK YOU ARE ANTI-CHRISTIAN, is that on par with a racist? >>

No, it's an expression of religious opinion.  I'm anti-Christian because (a) it's a religion based on a lie, the lie being that Jesus Christ was a god, and (b) because that religion is responsible for the horrible deaths of millions of innocent Jews over two thousand years, principally because the Jews wouldn't buy into their fucking lies.  They also enslaved the blacks and exterminated the Indians.  Great "religion!"

<<It took real courage for McCain to address his infidelities unlike your typical Democrat that deny deny deny.>>

What bullshit.  He couldn't escape it.  Like he escaped his war-criminal past and his own corruption scandal, being a charter member of the Keating Five.  His "real courage" led him to bury those little fiascos because he knew he could get away with them.  He couldn't stand in front of an Evangelical audience and ignore the adultery they all knew about.  I think "Pastor Rick" set him up with that question and gave him the opportunity to behave exactly as he did, which apparently was very effective with you.  It remains to be seen if the rest of the American people are so easily mollified.  I don't think the women of America are going to be such easy marks.  They KNOW slick-talking snakes like that, see them all the time in their daily lives.

<<The people in that crowd have done plenty of sinning in their lives. Most people understand that McCain came home from Vietnam terribly hurt and broken. >>

Huh??  THEY'RE "hurt and broken?"  Ever see what those fucking bastards did to the people of Viet Nam?  Ever see a picture of a napalmed child?  Fuck them they're "hurt and broken." 

<<Undoubtedly his marriage suffered for his poor mental state. >>

Undoubtedly his marriage suffered because a bastard who could drop napalm and burn other human beings alive will not be too concerned about who he fucks and when or where he fucks them.  The first wife got off better than his Vietnamese victims by a long shot, but your pathetic excuses for this clown's extramarital hijinks are hilarious.  Whose marriage suffered from somebody's healthy mental state? 

<<Unlike Clinton or Edwards McCain actually has an excuse but did you hear him make any? >>

I wish I had.  That woulda been hilarious.   "Sure I screwed around on my wife, but I'm entitled.  I was a veteran.  I was tortured by gooks because I napalmed their kids, so hell, that annuls all my marriage vows."  Oboy, I wish I'd heard him make excuses.  He was smart enough not to.  There aren't any.  You'll never hear Obama making excuses either, but that's because he doesn't screw around on his wife.

<<Nope, John is a man, a real man. >>

Yeah we can see that.  Kills women and children by burning them alive in napalm, sells out his constituents to the criminal Charles Keating, cheats on and divorces his wife.   You have a very curious opinion of what it is to "be a man."   Personally, I'll take Obama.

<<I respect that very much. >>

?   ?   ?   ?   ?   ?   ?   ?   ?   ?   ?

<<He's earned my vote and every person in that audience respects him too. >>

In a democracy you get the kind of government you deserve.  Here's hoping the rest of the country is not so easily taken in.

<<He took each question and answered them without ducking unlike your buddy Obama. Obama is weak . . .>>

That's about the only thing you've said here that I can agree with.

<< . . . spineless and a coward.>>

I  hope it's not that bad.  It took courage to oppose the war when everyone else was jumping on the bandwagon, the Democrats out of pure cowardice.

[Plane]

 "Perhaps we aren't doomed after all."

Yes....

Either he looks lightweight and foolish everytime he goes toe to toe with his opponent , or elese he avoids unscripted events and allows accusations of cowardace and lack of gravitas to stick.

Obama is charming and glib in a way I could not match , but he isn't running against me , he is running against a debator witrh deep wells of experience.

Has anyone found a good site to view that Saddleback question session on? I grow more eager to see it unedited and I have only found snippets.