Author Topic: Ariana Huffington on the election - the victory of hope over fear  (Read 5194 times)

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Michael Tee

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/obama-wins-why-all-americ_b_141159.html

very good editorial

Demagogues stoke fears - - any kind of fear - - to win elections.  Statesmen remind a nation of the kind of place it should be and appeal to our better impulses.  The demagogues can win a few, but ultimately their hollowness and lack of promise become impossible to hide any longer and they are rejected by the people.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Ariana Huffington on the election - the victory of hope over fear
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2008, 11:26:04 AM »
Demagogues stoke fears - - any kind of fear - - to win elections.  Statesmen remind a nation of the kind of place it should be and appeal to our better impulses.  The demagogues can win a few, but ultimately their hollowness and lack of promise become impossible to hide any longer and they are rejected by the people.

=============================================
Amen to that.

I hope I never hear Obama say "I am the Decider", and "I have earned political capital, which I will now spend", and simpleminded rot of that sort.

Juniorbush has been an anti-president: if you want to see how to do it right, check out Juniorbush, then do the opposite.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Ariana Huffington on the election - the victory of hope over fear
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2008, 06:22:21 PM »
Demagogues stoke fears - - any kind of fear - - to win elections.  Statesmen remind a nation of the kind of place it should be and appeal to our better impulses.  The demagogues can win a few, but ultimately their hollowness and lack of promise become impossible to hide any longer and they are rejected by the people.

=============================================
Amen to that.

I hope I never hear Obama say "I am the Decider", and "I have earned political capital, which I will now spend", and simpleminded rot of that sort.

Juniorbush has been an anti-president: if you want to see how to do it right, check out Juniorbush, then do the opposite.

What policy of the previous President do you expect to see reversed?

What staffers do you expect to be carryed over?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Ariana Huffington on the election - the victory of hope over fear
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2008, 06:32:55 PM »
I expect to see troops leave Iraq much sooner than they would have otherwise.

I would be surprised to see any of the Cabinet retained for any major period of time. No administration does this. I imagine political appointees will be replaced, and civil service peple will mostly be retained.

I expect to see some action on a healthcare bill soon, as well as a revision of the income tax rates.

I expect that the current Cuban embargo will be relaxed a lot.



"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Ariana Huffington on the election - the victory of hope over fear
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2008, 06:48:17 PM »
I expect to see troops leave Iraq much sooner than they would have otherwise.

I would be surprised to see any of the Cabinet retained for any major period of time. No administration does this. I imagine political appointees will be replaced, and civil service peple will mostly be retained.

I expect to see some action on a healthcare bill soon, as well as a revision of the income tax rates.

I expect that the current Cuban embargo will be relaxed a lot.





How can we know when they would have been recalled? Most of the Bush objective is accomplished , it might be a good time to recall them this month. Woud it be mean spirited to remove the US presence in Iraq two months before BHO becomes president?

Clinton saved Greenspan , Bush saved three Clinton appointees.
The whole Civil Service will be kept , this was Chester Authors reform , so that the spoils system doesn't make the whole civil service change out every four years. The Civil Service Reform could be seen as enableing the growth of the government to the size it is.


Quote
I expect to see some action on a healthcare bill soon, as well as a revision of the income tax rates.
Good luck with that. I hope it isn't the tragic mistake I think it is.



The Cuban Embargo isn't changeing without a big event first , Fidel dying , the Cuban government accepting capitolist principals or something like that. Nixon could go to China , but LBJ could not have , no one with a socialist cloud over his head can go to Cuba before Cuba repents of its sins. If Reagan or Bush 43 had seen an advantage in dropping the embargo they could have done it , BHO has not got the chops .


Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Ariana Huffington on the election - the victory of hope over fear
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2008, 07:12:24 PM »
The embargo serves no purpose, and moat Cubans now oppose it in the form it was enforced by Juniorbush. No Cuban can visit Cuba more than once over three years, and no one can send more than a small amount of money to specific close relatives.

Of course, I know people who have made three trips a year. All you have to do is to bribe some missionary church to name you a missionary. This they are happy to do for $200 or so.The reason Castro is still in power is the embargo. It keeps the Castros in power, and supports a small number of swindlers, like the people with bogus churches. The Democrats carried FL without the rightwing Cubans, and  there is no reason to suck up to
them any longer. Wait and see. Obama will change the embargo for sure.

And please, the embargo is not about "democracy". It's about colonialism, and no one likes colonialism more than the Republican oligarchy. It's the family business, it's what they do.
 
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Ariana Huffington on the election - the victory of hope over fear
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2008, 07:15:53 PM »
The embargo serves no purpose, and moat Cubans now oppose it in the form it was enforced by Juniorbush. No Cuban can visit Cuba more than once over three years, and no one can send more than a small amount of money to specific close relatives.

Of course, I know people who have made three trips a year. All you have to do is to bribe some missionary church to name you a missionary. This they are happy to do for $200 or so.The reason Castro is still in power is the embargo. It keeps the Castros in power, and supports a small number of swindlers, like the people with bogus churches. The Democrats carried FL without the rightwing Cubans, and  there is no reason to suck up to
them any longer. Wait and see. Obama will change the embargo for sure.

And please, the embargo is not about "democracy". It's about colonialism, and no one likes colonialism more than the Republican oligarchy. It's the family business, it's what they do.
 

If Cuba was a Democracy it would be impossible for them to exile a third of their people to a foreign nation where they might become in important voteing block.

Michael Tee

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Re: Ariana Huffington on the election - the victory of hope over fear
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2008, 07:22:54 PM »
<<What policy of the previous President do you expect to see reversed?>>

That's a very tough question.  First of all, I think Obama will have to pick his battles.  He can't realistically expect to reverse all the mistakes of the Bush administration and he's too smart to try.  I don't happen to think, given the popular vote split, that he has a particularly lavish mandate here.

One policy that will change from the outset is "war as the first resort," "pre-emptive war," or any other way that the Bush administration war policies can be described.  This is something nobody will "see reversed" because it's a negative - - nobody will "see" the wars that Obama doesn't start.  But it's very important (a) that there IS a President in office who people can trust not to start unprovoked wars of aggression and (b) that the rest of the world understands this.  It will immediately begin to reverse the tide of international anger and rage against the U.S. that under Bush has reached record proportions.

One reversal I would hope to see immediately would be a total reversal of the torture policies of the Bush administration.  An unambiguous, blanket prohibition of all forms of torture, including cruel and unusual punishments, with stiff penalties for abusers, if put into effect immediately, would go a long way towards re-establishing respect for America and its armed forces in the world.  You asked what I "expected" to see - - well, on torture, "expecting" to see a reversal is kind of strong language, I would say rather that it's something that I might see, and would hope to see.  NOT seeing it would be an early signal to me that Obama, like Bill Clinton, may not live up to the promise that he showed as a candidate.

The existing wars are a much tougher nut to crack.  Once begun, they can't be called off, unless the new President has a degree of boldness and courage that, frankly, I just don't think he has. 

I expect to see the commitments to Iraq reduced, but I don't know how he's gonna do it.  The problem is that appearances have to be maintained but costs cannot be sustained.  Logically there are only a few ways to do it, but each is fraught with political minefields for Obama and I just don't know if he's going to be able to reverse this mistake or take the line of least resistance by letting the thing continue to fester through and beyond his own administration until it resolves itself.

A very predictable and welcome reversal is in the area of Supreme Court appointments.  That's a no-brainer, and provided only that there are vacancies to be filled, Obama can be counted on to fill them with liberal, progressive judges rather than with Scalia or Alito clones.  If he won't be given the pleasure of filling conservative seats, at least he can replace liberal judges with very young, long-lasting varieties.

I expect also to see some serious tax reform.  I'm not sure what form it will take in detail, but we all know the era of tax breaks for the rich is over.  Tax reform is complex and exquisitely detailed and I wouldn't presume to guess the mechanism, apart from what Obama's already revealed to Joe the Plumber, but in general, I'd expect a much heavier bite on the rich and possibly some kind of break for the little guy.

Gay rights?  No changes, but to be fair, I don't believe that Bush made any changes in the situation that he inherited from Clinton.  Don't ask don't tell was a Clinton compromise to paint over one of his broken promises, but at least Bush never - - as far as I know - - did anything to worsen the situation that requires reversal. 

Stem cell research - - changes in funding policies for sure, but I am not really sure if there will be much demand for funding in human embryo stem cell research. 

Foreign aid restrictions on population control efforts that were religiously motivated, I think that's all gone.  There won't be any more fundamentalist influence on or interference with any kind of domestic or foreign federally financed programs that deal in any way with human sexuality.

The general tilt of the Bush administration towards laissez-faire capitalism is going to shift towards more regulation, but the system was never pure laissez-faire, so we're not really talking reversal so much as course alteration.

In summary, the worst mistake by far - - and it's really not a mistake but a crime - - of the Bush administration was the war in Iraq.  This could be totally reversed in under six months if Obama had the balls or even the mandate, but he has neither, and so the way that he deals with it won't be so much geared to stopping it in its tracks but more towards maintaining appearances and covering his own ass.  The big change will be invisible - - the wars he DOESN'T start.

Michael Tee

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Re: Ariana Huffington on the election - the victory of hope over fear
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2008, 08:16:16 AM »
Further along the lines of what changes I'd expect - -

I saw Michael Moore on Larry King last night and did I imagine it?  or was he hedging his bets?  Did anyone see this?  He says he foresees a rapid exit from Iraq; but then, "much faster than they'd have been pulled out by McCain?  by Bush?"  It kinda slipped by me.  I'm not sure what he said, but McCain's on record that he could keep the troops there for 100 years.  If that's the case "much faster than the other guys" is not necessarily the same as "gone in a flash."

Well, maybe the watchword is "Wait and See."

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Ariana Huffington on the election - the victory of hope over fear
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2008, 09:10:02 AM »

If Cuba was a Democracy it would be impossible for them to exile a third of their people to a foreign nation where they might become in important voteing block.
===================================================
First off, one-third of Cubans do NOT live in the US. There are maybe  two million here and another 11 million in Cuba. That isn't a third.

Second, the US could, if it wanted to, easily attract a third of all Ecuadoreans, Salvadoreans or Hondurans, regardless of whatever type of government these countries had. Immigration to the US is up to the US, not any foreign power.

Third, at least half of all the Puerto Ricans on the planet live in the US. Puerto Rico has been some sort of democracy since the 1930's.


There is nothing remotely true about this statement. Cubans come here because they mistakenly believe that there is more prosperity and fashionable clothing and other consumer products. Maybe one in ten has come for political reasons. Many Cubans are thrown in jail for theft, but claim to be 'political prisoners'. Only a minority of 'political prisoners' have been in jail for political activity.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Michael Tee

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Re: Ariana Huffington on the election - the victory of hope over fear
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2008, 12:37:41 PM »
Always a great mystery to me how all the Cubans who make it here are portrayed as a stunning indictment of the failure of communism in Cuba, but none of the Salvadorans, Mexicans, Guatemalans, Hondurans  etc. who make it here illegally are seen as a stunning indictment of the failure of capitalism in their home countries.  They're just pests and nuisances to be returned to sender or killed by vigilante groups.

Naturally, Cubans will flock to the U.S.A. if they're granted automatic rights of landing.  Think of what kind of floodgates would be opened if all the rest of Central America and Mexico were granted the same right.  Their fucking homelands would be depopulated overnight.

Plane

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Re: Ariana Huffington on the election - the victory of hope over fear
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2008, 07:35:04 PM »
Always a great mystery to me how all the Cubans who make it here are portrayed as a stunning indictment of the failure of communism in Cuba, but none of the Salvadorans, Mexicans, Guatemalans, Hondurans  etc. who make it here illegally are seen as a stunning indictment of the failure of capitalism in their home countries.  They're just pests and nuisances to be returned to sender or killed by vigilante groups.

Naturally, Cubans will flock to the U.S.A. if they're granted automatic rights of landing.  Think of what kind of floodgates would be opened if all the rest of Central America and Mexico were granted the same right.  Their fucking homelands would be depopulated overnight.

Are you trying to tell me that Mexico is not a socialist governed country?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Ariana Huffington on the election - the victory of hope over fear
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2008, 10:08:27 PM »
Are you trying to tell me that Mexico is not a socialist governed country?


Mexico is NOT a Socialist country in any way. It never has been.

I lived in Mexico for three years. I think I would have noticed.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Michael Tee

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Re: Ariana Huffington on the election - the victory of hope over fear
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2008, 11:51:30 PM »
I think maybe plane's thinking is stuck back in the Thirties, in the era of Lazaro Cárdenas, when the oil wells were nationalized, the priests and nuns were forbidden to wear their robes in public and the churches were closed by the PRI.  The PRI kept its name for decades afterwards, but the "R" in the party name was the only thing socialist about the government.  Vicente Fox's party was the first to defeat the PRI in an election so now the country is closer to a two-party model.  It's nowhere near socialist.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Ariana Huffington on the election - the victory of hope over fear
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2008, 12:42:39 AM »
The PRI gets fewer votes than both the conservative, church-linked PAN and the leftist PRD.
Fox stole the election, by the way, and the current PAN president was also accused of stealing the election. The PRD always wins in the capital.

In the 1950's, the ultrarightwing sinarquista movement, which evolved into the PAN, was allied with the Joe McCarthy and John Bircher far right of the US. These are the guys who bankroll Rush and other rightwing loons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Mexico
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."