Author Topic: are we about to enter a DEPRESSION?  (Read 2417 times)

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Christians4LessGvt

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are we about to enter a DEPRESSION?
« on: December 10, 2008, 02:17:50 PM »
Scary Stuff From www.GoToGuy.com

The price of key industrial metals has fallen further over the last four months than occurred during the worst years of the Great Depression between 1929 and 1933, according to research by Barclays Capital

This is something that leads me to believe that a serious amount of deleveraging will continue well into 2009.  Although metals are poised for a rise, we will not see it until the deflation stops.

In addition, considering the decline in metal prices and commodities is worse than when it was during the Great Depression, that to me suggests a prolonged "recession" is expected.

Home Prices are expected to fall at least another 20% in 2009.

FIRST  TIME  EVER: Treasury Bills Trade at Negative Rates.  Which translates into loaning the government $1.01 and they pay you back a dollar in 3 months. Normally you would loan the government 98 cents and get back a dollar.

Recent reports stated that oil could be $25 a barrel by next year. This also shows a slowdown in production and an era that has come to an end of where money is no longer easily accessible for the use of speculation.

It is expected that entire shopping malls will shut down as well.  The lack of credit is creating a problem throughout every single industry.  It does not matter whether it's energy, technology or health care.  Consider that this "recession" may take a little longer than a year or two to end.

WOW !

[source=e-mail]
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 02:21:42 PM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

kimba1

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Re: are we about to enter a DEPRESSION?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2008, 02:30:44 PM »
tricky situation which nobody will address
the economy need people to spend on credit to get better
but spending on credit is potentially harmful for people.
the only other solution is to increase overseas sales.
but notice no talk about actually bringing money into the U.S.


Christians4LessGvt

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Re: are we about to enter a DEPRESSION?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2008, 02:45:04 PM »
kimba have you heard how the recession/near drepression is affecting the illegal invasion at our borders?

has the recession slowed the tide of chaos?
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

kimba1

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Re: are we about to enter a DEPRESSION?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2008, 02:54:58 PM »
not yet
but last year less illegals are coming in .
kinda sad if a businesses can`t even sustain illegal cheap labor.


Plane

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Re: are we about to enter a DEPRESSION?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2008, 03:05:46 PM »
Would it help if we all bought a car?

Plane

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Re: are we about to enter a DEPRESSION?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2008, 03:06:29 PM »
not yet
but last year less illegals are coming in .
kinda sad if a businesses can`t even sustain illegal cheap labor.




So next year the cheep expatriot labor is gonna be us.

The_Professor

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Re: are we about to enter a DEPRESSION?
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2008, 03:07:38 PM »
you first, Plane. :-)
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: are we about to enter a DEPRESSION?
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2008, 03:41:08 PM »

kimba it seems lots of illegals work in construction which has ground to halt
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Plane

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Re: are we about to enter a DEPRESSION?
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2008, 03:44:23 PM »
you first, Plane. :-)

If I recall rightly, you have worked across the water already.

I don't object in principal , but I wonder who would be likely to hire a lot of Americans?

kimba1

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Re: are we about to enter a DEPRESSION?
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2008, 03:47:02 PM »
Don`t mean to be insulting(lying)
but I`m not sure we`re (people in the united states) gonna be in much demand
we`re not exactly known for our work ethics.
we`re a nation of supervisor wanna be`s ,not exactly much demand for that
we think all manual jobs are easy and will complain it`s too hard when actually doing it.


Plane

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Re: are we about to enter a DEPRESSION?
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2008, 03:53:17 PM »
Don`t mean to be insulting(lying)
but I`m not sure we`re (people in the united states) gonna be in much demand
we`re not exactly known for our work ethics.
we`re a nation of supervisor wanna be`s ,not exactly much demand for that
we think all manual jobs are easy and will complain it`s too hard when actually doing it.



How many countrys work a longer week than Americans?
Quote
http://www.homepages.indiana.edu/040904/text/workweek.shtml

Although the 40-hour week is still considered the benchmark in American work culture, most researchers would argue that it is nearly as obsolete as most of the factory jobs to which it was originally applied. According to a recent survey by Expedia.com, 63 percent of Americans work more than 40 hours a week, with some 40 percent exceeding the 50-hour a week mark. More than $21 billion dollars in vacation time goes unused annually (and back to employers!), as we spend 2.5 more weeks—and three months more—at work than do our Japanese and western European counterparts, respectively.

Quote
http://www.jugglezine.com/CDA/juggle/0,1516,89,00.html
I have a friend and neighbor, a chemist, who works in Michigan for a Dutch-owned corporation. He was at our house recently, attending a birthday party for my husband, when he received a message to call work.

"Wait a minute," I said. "I'm writing an essay on working hours that makes the argument that Europeans work far fewer hours than Americans and thus have more time to enjoy good food and cultivate lasting friendships. Your enlightened European employer is calling you away from our fine food and fellowship at 10:30 on a Saturday night. What's up with that?"

Our friend--who holds a Ph.D., who is not an hourly worker, whose job description does not include anything about being on 24-hour call--explained that while the parent company in the Netherlands operates at a relatively leisurely pace which includes lots of paid holidays, generous vacation benefits, and many company "celebrations," the regional facility where he works operates on "American time"--as in 24/7-- "because they know we will."
.....................

When we asked our overworked friend if he found his parent company's cultural differences in time perception bothersome, he said only that he felt frustrated at his European counterparts' slowness to respond to the needs of its U.S. office: "Every time I call," he complained, "they're on vacation."


« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 04:07:37 PM by Plane »

kimba1

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Re: are we about to enter a DEPRESSION?
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2008, 04:05:10 PM »
not sure about japan
see on paper the japanese work less than americans but in actual work without pay it`s abit different.
but you brought up a interesting point that american workers are giving up vacations and still businesses are tanking.
the wrong people are being laid-off

The_Professor

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Re: are we about to enter a DEPRESSION?
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2008, 06:08:59 PM »

kimba it seems lots of illegals work in construction which has ground to halt

Economy forcing many Mexicans to leave United States
By Chris Hawley, USA TODAY
When her 3-year-old son begs for pizza, or when her family is shivering through a subfreezing night in the Mexican highlands — those are the moments when Rosario Araujo misses America the most.
Three months ago, Araujo and her husband, José Zavala, were still living comfortably, though illegally, in a suburb of Phoenix. He hung drywall for $10 an hour; she was a housekeeper. Their version of the American dream was modest: a small apartment, a washing machine and an occasional night out with their two American-born kids.

Then the economic crisis hit, and work dried up. So in October, the family moved back to central Mexico's empty plains, joining a small but growing flow of migrants heading home because of the U.S. recession.

"It was a difficult decision," admits Araujo, 20. "We took a lot of risks to get" to America. "We miss it."

Life on her husband's family farm seems a world away from sunny Arizona. The cinder-block farmhouse lacks central heat, so the family wraps in blankets and huddles around a space heater. They can't afford pizza anymore because they haven't yet found work here, either.

Those challenges help illustrate why most of the 11.9 million illegal immigrants that the Pew Hispanic Center estimates are residing in the USA are staying put for now. Even in bad times, U.S. salaries are still, on average, about four times higher than those across the border. The Mexican job market is flat and drug-related violence is at record highs.

Even so, the collapse of the U.S. economy — particularly the housing industry — has forced the Mexican government to start preparing for an influx of returnees in the months ahead. As was the case with Araujo's family, most illegal immigrants lack a social safety net in the USA and could have no choice but to return to Mexico, where at least they can count on family to provide shelter and food.

"We have to face the possibility of a very large number of Mexicans" coming home, Foreign Minister Patricia Espinosa said last month.

Besides the faltering economy, tighter border enforcement and increasing numbers of police raids on undocumented workers have contributed to a modest decline in the USA's illegal immigrant population — the first such drop in recent memory, says Steven Camarota of the Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington-based think tank.

"People still continue to come and go, but the equation seems to have switched," Camarota says. "A lot of people argued that immigrants were so permanently anchored in the United States that nothing, no enforcement, no cutoff of jobs would induce them to go home. It seems that's not the case."

If the trend accelerates, it could eventually ease some of the strain that illegal immigrants place on services such as schools and hospitals in border areas of the United States, says William Frey, a demographer at the Brookings Institution, another Washington think tank.

Culture shock awaits

Many of those who return undergo a kind of culture shock after spending so many years in a more developed country. Zavala, Araujo's husband, says he is most worried about his children's education.

"The schools there (in the United States), they take the children in a bus and give them food, books, everything," he says. "Here you walk to school and you get nothing."

For now, the couple are scraping by with their dwindling savings. Zavala spends his days tending his father's three cows, waiting for planting season and worrying about the future.

Just down the road from him in the town of San José de Lourdes, population 7,000, about 50 migrant workers have returned from the USA in the past few months, says Abel Hernández, the town's administrator.

Even by local standards, the town is not a particularly inviting place.

Tethered horses stand in the dirt streets. A battered welcome sign hangs crazily from a post, one end resting on the ground; the other post was knocked down by a drunken driver and never replaced. The town's liveliest businesses are a feed store and a factory that processes corn husks for wrapping tamales.

The long tradition of migration is obvious everywhere. At a gasoline station outside town, there is a U.S. highway map on the wall and a Western Union window where residents can pick up wire transfers from their relatives in the United States.

Still, several residents who were deported from the USA or came back for family reasons say they are postponing their return until the economy improves.

"Why go back now? There's no work," says Rogelio Ortíz, who returned from Memphis in August to visit his wife and children. He's waiting to see whether the next U.S. president can help the economy. "Let's see if Obama can do something about it."

Teresa Cervantes, 21, says she and her husband decided their family no longer could afford to live in the Chicago area after his construction work dried up.

She returned this month with their two children; he probably will join them next year, she says.

The migrants who remain in the United States are sending home less money, Hernández says. Across Mexico, migrant remittances dropped 6.5% from $6.33 billion in the third quarter of 2007 to $5.92 billion in the same period this year, according to Mexico's central bank. The effect has been amplified in poor towns that rely heavily on money from migrants abroad.

In San José de Lourdes, store owner Ana María Guardado says her sales have dropped 30% as families cut back to staple foods. Rodriguez, the farmer, says his sisters used to wire him $100 every eight days. They also paid for his phone line so they could keep in touch with family back home.

He hasn't gotten a wire in six weeks, he says, and now his phone has been shut off.

Trying to assist returnees

Among the thousands of Mexicans who have been uprooted by the economic turmoil, most are moving within the U.S. rather than leaving the country, says Arturo Sarukhan, Mexico's ambassador in Washington.

In some Mexican consulates, the number of requests for consular IDs has doubled as migrants update their addresses, he says. Many people in Arizona, Colorado and Virginia are moving to California and the Northeast, places seen as more migrant-friendly, he says.

"We are seeing very significant and very profound migration patterns within the United States," Sarukhan says.

For those who do return to Mexico, the Mexican government is expanding the Seguro Popular health insurance plan to absorb returning migrants and is hoping to create jobs for them with a raft of new infrastructure projects such as highways, airports and new border crossings, says Espinosa, the foreign minister.

In Mexico City — which estimates it has about 450,000 citizens living in the United States, out of a total population of 8.7 million — officials are taking more dramatic steps. The local government is bringing in psychologists from a local university to help migrant children returning from the USA to fit in at Mexican schools, says Guadalupe Chipole Ibañez, director of Mexico City's Center for Migrants.

Many of the new arrivals have trouble in grammar and literature classes, she says.

"There are children who speak and understand well in both Spanish and English, but many of them only write in English, and that is causing them a lot of problems in school," Chipole Ibañez said during a news conference in October.

Not all of the change is negative — Araujo, the former housekeeper, says she won't miss the constant threat of deportation. In Maricopa County, Ariz., where she lived, Sheriff Joe Arpaio has earned national attention for arresting illegal immigrants in anti-crime sweeps.

Blanca Castillo, Araujo's sister in-law who also recently returned home, notes that anti-Mexican sentiment seemed to be growing among Arizonans.

"Suddenly people were shouting things at you on the street," Castillo says. "It was like, as the economy went down, the racism went up."

Despite all the problems, and the increasing difficulties of getting back across the border, Araujo's husband says he would try to return to the United States in an instant if things improve.

"Maybe things will get better next year," Zavala says. "I hope so, anyway, because there's nothing for us here — nothing."

Hawley is Latin America correspondent for USA TODAY and The Arizona Republic.
 
 
Find this article at:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-12-09-Mexico-immigrants_N.htm 
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: are we about to enter a DEPRESSION?
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2008, 06:17:44 PM »
"Economy forcing many Mexicans to leave United States"

well i guess there is a "silver lining" to the recession/depression!

thanks professor
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BSB

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Re: are we about to enter a DEPRESSION?
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2008, 11:46:28 PM »
Plane Talker  >>Would it help if we all bought a car?<<

I'm buying a truck next week. Detroit made, so I'm doing my part.


I ordered a camper for it 2 weeks ago.

Up position

http://www.alaskancamper.org/Desktop-Images/30.jpg

http://www.alaskancamper.org/Desktop-Images/31.jpg

Travel position.

http://www.alaskancamper.org/Desktop-Images/6.jpg

http://www.alaskancamper.org/Desktop-Images/34.jpg