Author Topic: dont be evil  (Read 4981 times)

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Plane

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Kramer

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Re: dont be evil
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2010, 08:26:14 PM »
They are too expensive, loud and break down a lot. About 2 hours away I drive past miles of them on the way to Palm Springs. About 1/3 never work for various reasons. They kill birds and are ugly. They make a lot of noise and take up large amount of space.

A small nuke plant would be much better but of course we have to be PC and be foolish at the same time. What morons liberals are. Everything they touch turns to shit.

Plane

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Re: dont be evil
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2010, 08:43:02 PM »
I am simply shocked at Google buying something tangable.

Kramer

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Re: dont be evil
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2010, 08:56:14 PM »
I am simply shocked at Google buying something tangable.

I think it's called a tax write off

Amianthus

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Re: dont be evil
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2010, 10:36:35 PM »
We have lots of wind farms up here. They make no noise, don't kill birds (unless it's a REALLY SLOW bird), and if maintained properly generate electricity 24/7 for months.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Plane

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Re: dont be evil
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2010, 10:48:35 PM »
Vermont

A Manchester company says it will revive the proposal to build a wind farm centered on Grandpa's Knob.

"We think it's a great site and the fundamental elements exist," Steve Eisenberg, managing director of Reunion Power, said Friday.

Eisenberg said his company, which also has an office in New Jersey, closed a deal with previous developer Noble Environmental Power around Christmastime. He said the terms of the deal were confidential, but the result is that his company plans to take the project forward.

"We are the developer and sole owner," he said. "It's our very definite plan to have a very long-term investment. That's what we do, we develop and we manage. … We have the reins."


Grandpa’s Knob wind farm has new owner; Reunion Power buys out troubled Noble’s stake

[url=http://www.wind-watch.org/news/2010/01/09/grandpas-knob-wind-farm-has-new-owner-reunion-power-buys-out-troubled-nobles-stake/]http://www.wind-watch.org/news/2010/01/09/grandpas-knob-wind-farm-has-new-owner-reunion-power-buys-out-troubled-nobles-stake/


http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20100109/NEWS04/1090360/1003/NEWS02[/url]


http://www.revermont.org/grandpa_knob.pdf

http://www.windpoweringamerica.gov/ne_history_grandpa.asp
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 10:54:58 PM by Plane »

Kramer

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Re: dont be evil
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2010, 11:40:00 PM »
"Virtually everything with moving parts will make some sound, and wind turbines are no exception. Well designed wind turbines are generally quiet in operation, and compared to the noise of road traffic, trains, aircraft and construction activities, to name but a few, the noise from wind turbines is very low. Outside the nearest houses, which are at least 300 metres away, and more often further, the sound of a wind turbine generating electricity is likely to be about the same level as noise from a flowing stream about 50-100 metres away or the noise of leaves rustling in a gentle breeze. This is similar to the sound level inside a typical living room with a gas fire switched on, or the reading room of a library or in an unoccupied, quiet, air-conditioned office."
http://www.bwea.com/ref/noise.html

"The report found that over the study period, 25 bird carcasses were found at the sites. The report states that "the resulting mortality rate of 1.29 birds/tower/year is close to the nationwide estimate of 2.19 birds/tower. The report further states, "While bird collisions do occur (with commercial wind turbines) the impacts on global populations appear to be relatively minor, especially in comparison with other human-related causes of mortality such as communications towers, collisions with buildings, and vehicles collisions. This is especially true for small scale facilities like the MG&E and WPS wind farms in Kewaunee County."

"The report goes on to say, "previous studies suggest that the frequency of avian collisions with wind turbines is low, and the impact of wind power on bird populations today is negligible. Our study provides little evidence to refute this claim."

"So, while wind farms are responsible for the deaths of some birds, when put into the perspective of other causes of avian mortality, the impact is quite low. In other words, bird mortality at wind farms, compared to other human-related causes of bird mortality, is biologically and statistically insignificant. There is no evidence that birds are routinely being battered out of the air by rotating wind turbine blades as postulated by some in the popular press."
http://www.awea.org/faq/sagrillo/swbirds.html
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Kramer

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Re: dont be evil
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2010, 12:09:27 AM »
Nuke power is the way to go not wind power. Those wind systems just aren't as good as some people think. They break down a lot and are costly to maintain. They take up a lot of land too. They are ugly too.


http://www.wvmcre.org/neg_imapcts/neg_impacts.htm
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 12:30:14 AM by Kramer »

Kramer

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Re: dont be evil
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2010, 12:18:53 AM »
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech-mainmenu-30/energy/788

Wind vs. Nuclear Power: Which Is Safer?
     
Written by Ed Hiserodt  
Monday, 16 February 2009 09:44

Nuclear power is portrayed by the major media and by environmental activists as dangerous and perhaps even sinister.  Wind power, on the other hand, is considered benign. But the track records of nuclear power and wind power present a different picture.

Nuclear power has been been used to produce electricity for more than four decades, beginning with the Shippingport nuclear power plant in 1957. Today there are 104 nuclear power plants in the United States generating some 60 billion kilowatt hours per year of electricity. There have been no deaths from radiation in more than 40 years of American nuclear plant operations. Even considering the "catastrophe" at Three Mile Island,  there has not been a single case of injury to any member of the public. (There were fatalities at the Russian Chernobyl plant, but that plant was radically different from an American nuclear power plant. It did not even have a containment structured around the nuclear reactor.)

How about wind power? How does it fare compared to the perfect record of the American nuclear power industry?  Believe it or not, there is an organization, the Caithness Windfarm Information Forum, that keeps data on wind-power-related accidents and/or design problems. Caithness is based in Great Britain, where homeowners have already grown tired of the noise and other wind-turbine-generated problems. Their "Summary of Wind Turbine Accident Data to 31 December 2008"  reports 41 worker fatalities.  Most, not unexpectedly, were from falling  as they are typically working on turbines some thirty stories above the ground. In addition, Caithness attributed the deaths of 16 members of the public to wind-turbine accidents.

A summary of accidents includes:

• 139 incidents of blade failure. Failed blades have been known to travel over a quarter mile, and that is from turbines much smaller than those being manufactured today. This type of accident has caused some European countries to require a minimum distance of about one mile (2 km) between occupied housing and wind turbines.

•110 incidents of fire. When a wind turbine fire occurs, the local fire departments (without 30-story ladder trucks) can do little but watch. This isn't a problem unless the wind is blowing sufficiently to scatter the debris into dry fields or woodlands — or maybe onto your roof.

• 60 incidents of structural failure. This includes turbine failure and tower collapse failures. While not now a problem for the public — except having to gaze upon at a bent-over wind turbine — it may well become one as governments, under pressure from environmental activists, encourage marginal- and hastily-sited wind projects in urban areas where such an accident could kill and maim.

• 24 incidents of "ice throw" with human injury. These data may be a small fraction of actual incidences, with 880 icing events reported in a 13-year period for Germany alone.

Why these fatalities for wind compared to none for the American nuclear power industry? Nuclear energy comes from a reactor core about the size of a living room where it can be monitored and contained in-depth. It would take 2,000 30-story tall wind turbines to produce the power of a typical nuclear plant, assuming 90 percent and 30 percent capacity factors. How many accidents would you expect when building 2,000 30-story turbine generators as compared to pouring concrete for a single containment building of a few thousand square feet?

But the deaths and injuries resulting from wind turbine construction and operation will be dwarfed by the carnage certain to occur in California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's "million solar roofs plant" actually comes to fruition? Falls, currently the second largest cause of accidental deaths after auto accidents and five times the rate from fires, will no doubt take a sizable jump as tens of thousands of amateur installers take to the roofs. And remember, solar voltaic cells must be cleaned regularly else they rapidly lose their already poor efficiencies.

Environmental accidents would have more credibility if they presented the full story on "non- renewables" such as wind and solar power. Of course, if they did, and if they at the same time claimed that we must go wind as opposed to nuclear, theyíd be laughed out of town.

March 6, 2009 Addendum: The original intent of this article was to point out the existence of a group, the Caithness Windfarm Information Forum,that kept track of accidents and deaths related to construction and operation of wind turbines. I was amazed that such a group existed and was so knowledgeable about the subject. But being unabashedly pro-nuclear, I couldnít resist pointing out the excellent safety record in the nuclear power generation industry.

I had given it the sarcastic working title of "That Safe Renewable Energy."  Now that I look at it, however,  the article indeed looks like a comparison of the safety records. As pointed out by comments below, however, it is not a fair comparison since the wind data was worldwide and the nuclear power stats were from the United States alone.  As noted by one commentator, it does a disservice to the nuclear power industry as it appears to be spinning data in favor of nuclear power when such spinning is unnecessary.

Then too, as mentioned out by another commentator, the accident and death rates should be put in terms of relative amounts of power generated — a good research topic for another day.  My apologies for not taking all of this into consideration, especially since my raison d'etre is bringing the truth about energy matters to the readers of The New American.


kimba1

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Re: dont be evil
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2010, 12:47:19 AM »
I work with a alt. power attorney and the data he showed me is bird kills is actually  a design flaw on the windmill and has been corrected.

on the topic of nukes the real question that should be asked is it cost effective? remember it uses extremely expensive materials for fuel.

honestly on topic of power generally speaking.
I think were all screwed, nobodies is talking cost.
this means electricty is gonna be costly without effort to minimize.

Amianthus

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Re: dont be evil
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2010, 01:02:43 AM »
So, Kramer, why do you only talk about systems that were designed more than 20 years ago instead of modern wind generators?

Modern wind generators are majestic looking, kill hardly any birds (certainly fewer birds than buildings do), make virtually no noise, and generate a large amount of power with no fuel. And there is no radioactive waste.

Wisconsin Windmills
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Plane

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Re: dont be evil
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2010, 09:40:51 AM »
If we built windmills a lot they could generate a major part of our energy needs , but what would we do with all of the spent wind fuel?

Kramer

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Re: dont be evil
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2010, 12:07:43 PM »
So, Kramer, why do you only talk about systems that were designed more than 20 years ago instead of modern wind generators?

Modern wind generators are majestic looking, kill hardly any birds (certainly fewer birds than buildings do), make virtually no noise, and generate a large amount of power with no fuel. And there is no radioactive waste.

Wisconsin Windmills

Then why does GB have a moratorium on Windmills and aren't building more. GB is the pioneer of them (more or less) and they finally see they aren't efficient and the negatives out way the positives to having them over say Nuke Power. Wind Mills are not cost effective, take up large portions of land, and all the other reasons stated. You need to get off your windmill fantasy and wake up to Nuke Power. Nuke Power is cheap, safe, takes up little space, and has less enviro impact then wind generated electricity. Sorry bub but you are pissing up a rope in your naive dream about a wind powered America. It's just a silly notion. Personally I'd rather see a large part of the country with solar panels on their roofs. But overall Nuke Power is the way and has been since about 1957.

kimba1

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Re: dont be evil
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2010, 12:33:13 PM »
on this subject I think we`re still thinking singular sources of power.
nuclear,wind, bio-whatever shouldn`t be competing.

it`s this kind of thinking that will get us tri-state black-outs again.

we need many types of power sources .

note -nobody is addressing cost here- energy star is not gonna solve this.