Author Topic: well gohhhhhhleee who wooda thunk?  (Read 1436 times)

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Christians4LessGvt

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well gohhhhhhleee who wooda thunk?
« on: June 10, 2010, 02:44:46 AM »


Hispanics flee Arizona ahead of immigration law
 
By Alan Gomez, USA TODAY

Arizona's tough new immigration enforcement law is fueling an exodus of Hispanics from the state seven weeks before it goes into effect, according to officials and residents in the state.

Though no one has precise figures, reports from school officials, businesses and individuals indicate worried Hispanics ? both legal and illegal ? are leaving the state in anticipation of the law, which will go into effect July 29.

Schools in Hispanic areas report unusual drops in enrollment. The Balsz Elementary School District is 75% Hispanic, and within a month of the law's passage, the parents of 70 students pulled them out of school, said District Superintendent Jeffrey Smith. The district lost seven students over the same one-month period last year, and parents tell Smith the Arizona law is the reason for leaving.

"They're leaving to another state where they feel more welcome," he said.

The measure, signed into law April 23 by Republican Gov. Jan Brewer, requires a police officer to determine a person's immigration status if they are stopped, detained or arrested and there is "reasonable suspicion" they are in the country illegally.

About 100,000 illegal immigrants left Arizona after the state passed a law in 2007 that enhanced penalties on businesses that hired them, according to the Department of Homeland Security. Some early signs suggest another exodus.

Businesses serving the Hispanic community say business is down, signaling that illegal immigrants are holding on to cash in anticipation of a move from the state, said David Castillo, co-founder of the Latin Association of Arizona, a chamber of commerce for nearly 400 first-generation Hispanic business owners.

"(Brewer) signed the law, and everything fell apart," Castillo said. "It's devastating."

Jorge Vargas plans to move to New York City because his air-conditioning business relies mostly on Hispanics. "My business is completely dead," he said.

Juan Carlos Cruz, an illegal immigrant who has worked in plant nurseries for 20 years, huddled with dozens of relatives over the Memorial Day Weekend in the backyard of his brother's Phoenix-area home to plot out the family's next move to avoid what they say will be harassment by police. Virginia and California are the front-runners.

"If I were alone, I'd try to stay. But I have a family, and I have to find a place where we can live with more freedom," said Cruz, who hopes to move July 4 to blend in with holiday weekend traffic. "This is getting too hard."

Paul Senseman, a spokesman for Brewer, said it's difficult to gauge how many people are leaving because of the law, but he said he hears similar reports of people leaving the state.

"If that means that fewer people are breaking the law, that is absolutely an accomplishment," he said.
 
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-06-08-immigration_N.htm
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Michael Tee

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Re: well gohhhhhhleee who wooda thunk?
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2010, 07:29:38 AM »
<<Though no one has precise figures, reports from school officials, businesses and individuals indicate worried Hispanics " both legal and illegal ">>

Sure "both legal and illegal" - - the racists who wrote the law want to get rid of Mexicans and they don't give a shit how "legal" they are.  Of course, the law says that no racial profiling will be allowed, but everyone knows that's how it will be enforced, through profiling, regardless of the "no profiling" provision and that's why a lot of Hispanics, even the "legal" ones, are scared.

BT

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Re: well gohhhhhhleee who wooda thunk?
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2010, 10:20:46 AM »
SInce when is hispanic a race?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: well gohhhhhhleee who wooda thunk?
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2010, 10:37:10 AM »
This is a matter of semantics. Those who oppose Hispanics are technically not "racists", just as those who despise Saudis could be called "anti-Semetic", since Arabs are Semites. But of course, "anti-Semetic", at least in the US describes only those who hate Jews, not other alleged descendents of Abraham.

But the hatred against Hispanics manifested by some White Arizonans is equal in intensity to that of Alabama Kluxers. So this is essentially a moot point.

We have no word for those who hate Swedes, or despise Nepalese, wish to torture Tswanas, or detest Hopis. But that does not make these attitudes wholesome.

I would imagine that there is a Turkish word for those who dislike Armenians, probably a derogative Armenian word Turks, and I know that Serbs refer to Albanians, as "Shiptars", which is not something that pleases Albanians. Maybe the Navahos and the Hopis have unpleasant terms for one another in their own languages.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: well gohhhhhhleee who wooda thunk?
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2010, 10:48:07 AM »
But the hatred against Hispanics manifested by some White Arizonans is equal in intensity to that of Alabama Kluxers. We have no word for those who hate Swedes, or despise Nepalese, wish to torture Tswanas, or detest Hopis.

what is the word for those who hate legal citizens of the United States trying
to keep their country from being over-run by poor uneducated illegal invaders?

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BT

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Re: well gohhhhhhleee who wooda thunk?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2010, 11:16:33 AM »
This is a matter of semantics. Those who oppose Hispanics are technically not "racists", just as those who despise Saudis could be called "anti-Semetic", since Arabs are Semites. But of course, "anti-Semetic", at least in the US describes only those who hate Jews, not other alleged descendents of Abraham.

But the hatred against Hispanics manifested by some White Arizonans is equal in intensity to that of Alabama Kluxers. So this is essentially a moot point.

We have no word for those who hate Swedes, or despise Nepalese, wish to torture Tswanas, or detest Hopis. But that does not make these attitudes wholesome.

I would imagine that there is a Turkish word for those who dislike Armenians, probably a derogative Armenian word Turks, and I know that Serbs refer to Albanians, as "Shiptars", which is not something that pleases Albanians. Maybe the Navahos and the Hopis have unpleasant terms for one another in their own languages.



Words have meaning. Continuously calling the Arizona law and its authors racist is inaccurate. Applying evil motivation to the authors is much more subjective and discerning that motivation is more properly the subject for debate.


kimba1

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Re: well gohhhhhhleee who wooda thunk?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2010, 11:37:55 AM »
hmm
looks to me it`s a matter of trust.
officials in arizona claim they only go after illegals. but it seems  alot of people have no confidence in the government .
remember even on the federal level native born americans have been deported.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: well gohhhhhhleee who wooda thunk?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2010, 01:13:33 PM »
The word "racist" is inaccurate, but the language lacks a word that describes the phenomena.

The meanings of some words change with time.

Demeaning words are fairly common, and sometimes start out innocuously enough, like "dago, nigger, spick, polack, mick, chinee" which were not used entirely as insults originally. Words that describe those who seek to demean others, like "antisemitic, racist" and such arise when the demeaning has been recognized as antisocial and undesirable behavior. In the US, we have no term for undesirable Albanians, like "shiptar", because most Americans have never met an Albanian, and would not be able to identify one it he did.

This does not mean that the behavior is any less unacceptable. It is as wrong to advocate the lynching of a Hopi for being a Hopi as that of anyone else.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: well gohhhhhhleee who wooda thunk?
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2010, 01:45:12 PM »
Quote
It is as wrong to advocate the lynching of a Hopi for being a Hopi as that of anyone else.

And that would be relevant if the law called for lynching Hopi's.

Quote
The word "racist" is inaccurate, but the language lacks a word that describes the phenomena.

"bigoted" and "prejudicial" both come to mind.

kimba1

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Re: well gohhhhhhleee who wooda thunk?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2010, 02:40:08 PM »
bigoted ,prejudical today doesn`t have the sting as racist.

hard to except but the meaning of the word "racist"  has changed to unuseable word now.
different people apply different meaning to it.

sirs

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Re: well gohhhhhhleee who wooda thunk?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2010, 02:46:36 PM »
hard to except but the meaning of the word "racist"  has changed to unuseable word now.  different people apply different meaning to it.

You've got that right, Kimba.  Then again, perhaps that was the goal
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

kimba1

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Re: well gohhhhhhleee who wooda thunk?
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2010, 05:24:25 PM »
perhaps that was the goal.

sorry sirs

I refuse to back that statement, it hints intelligence.

not gonna give them that

sorry

sirs

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Re: well gohhhhhhleee who wooda thunk?
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2010, 05:35:32 PM »
I did preface my statement with "perhaps"    ;)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

kimba1

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Re: well gohhhhhhleee who wooda thunk?
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2010, 05:49:33 PM »
stand corrected

Plane

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Re: well gohhhhhhleee who wooda thunk?
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2010, 10:12:38 PM »
There is a process by which words gain meaning.


Old words gain new meaning the same way.


When a word is really needed someone will coin it , and the population of language users wil determine ,by the most democratic process on Earth ,whether or not it is apt.