Marriage is now allowed for gays in Florida.

[Plane]

According to Christian doctrine, we are all born in original sin, so forget the innocent part.

By the way, unless you are professing Christianity as the truth, it seems incongruous for you to refer to it as a generator of law.

[sirs]

Touche'       

[Xavier_Onassis]

I mentioned this because you claim to be a Christian, not because I believe it.

I recognize that children are innocent with no difficulty: you, supposedly do not, and yet you refer to these children as "innocent" The hypocrisy is yours, not mine.

I am neither for nor against abortion.  OI continue to state the belief that a woman has an absolute right over her own body. Ypiu are the one that wants "jack booted government thugs" to punish her and her doctor should she have an abortion that you do not approve of.

With regard to abortion, I agree with Libertarians. A woman choosing an abortion does me no harm.

[sirs]

I recognize that children are innocent with no difficulty: you, supposedly do not, and...

...and you keep ignoring the context by which the term innocent is being used.  Here's a hint, it has nothing to do with Christian theology.....or any religion for that matter.  I wonder why is that.  When in fact, we all know why you pull that prank....Xo tactic 102; argue against a point, no one has made. 

And of course you're for abortion.....its "only a fetus" right?  I tell you what, when I get to work, I'll ask one of our few preganant nurses if she's carrying a fetus or an unborn child.  These would be medical progessionals, with all forms of medical degrees, who know precisely what a fetus is.  Want to take bets on what their answers are going to be?

And the "harm" has nothing to do with you, or even the mother.  It's the harm to the unborn child, that's at the heart of this matter

[Plane]

With regard to abortion, I agree with Libertarians. A woman choosing an abortion does me no harm.

    So , Libertarians would have been strongly against the 1860 Republican platform?

     Man , times like this I really miss UP.

[sirs]

Ditto on missing the Prince......and Pooch     

[Xavier_Onassis]

Slavery was obviously harmful to the slaves, who were human beings.

A woman deciding to have an abortion or not does not harm a single citizen. Fetuses are not citizens. They are potential babies.

this is a silly question. There were no Libertarians then. You might as well ask about Charlemagne's opinion of  Net Neutrality.

I have never agreed to abide by sirs weird rules of debate.

[sirs]

Welp...1st Pregnant nurse response is back.  An apparent yet-to-be born bouncing girl.  Apparently not a fetus, not a mass of cells, not a "potential" human, but an unborn baby girl.  There's about 3 other Nurses I need to inquire to

A Woman deciding to have an abortion absoutely harms the unborn child....kills him or her...literally

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Xo tactic 102, arguing a point never made.  FYI, I have no rules of debate to follow, so there's no need to abide by something, that doesn't exist.  The only rule I have....for me personally, is just a quid-pro-quo of responding.  Respect in posting, respect in responding.  If I get disrespected in a post, I have no obligation to be respectful in responding.  My rule only, that you're not obligated to abide by

[Plane]

---------------------------------------------------

Xo tactic 102, arguing a point never made.  FYI, I have no rules of debate to follow, so there's no need to abide by something, that doesn't exist.  The only rule I have....for me personally, is just a quid-pro-quo of responding.  Respect in posting, respect in responding.  If I get disrespected in a post, I have no obligation to be respectful in responding.  My rule only, that you're not obligated to abide by

     Yes , this is the real world of debate, the kind that politics has been fond of since Socrates was in short pants.

    I might like a debate with more orderly rules of order , but I would not quit this one for it.

    Take note that the presidential debaters  are prone to straw man arguments, distraction, non sequiter etc etc....

    Don't get frustrated , whetstones are supposed to be rough.

[Plane]

I mentioned this because you claim to be a Christian, not because I believe it.

I recognize that children are innocent with no difficulty: you, supposedly do not, and yet you refer to these children as "innocent" The hypocrisy is yours, not mine.

   Then lets talk about the children that are innocent in your terms, does the law have an interest in preventing the murder of innocent children?

      As Benjamin Franklin noted a newborn baby is pretty useless.

[sirs]

---------------------------------------------------

Xo tactic 102, arguing a point never made.  FYI, I have no rules of debate to follow, so there's no need to abide by something, that doesn't exist.  The only rule I have....for me personally, is just a quid-pro-quo of responding.  Respect in posting, respect in responding.  If I get disrespected in a post, I have no obligation to be respectful in responding.  My rule only, that you're not obligated to abide by

    Take note that the presidential debaters  are prone to straw man arguments, distraction, non sequiter etc etc....

    Don't get frustrated , whetstones are supposed to be rough.

My patience does wear thin from time to time, but there's Plane to demonstrate and exmplify what true patience really is       You are an excellent Jedi Master, and I a mere Padawan in your presence

[Plane]

---------------------------------------------------

Xo tactic 102, arguing a point never made.  FYI, I have no rules of debate to follow, so there's no need to abide by something, that doesn't exist.  The only rule I have....for me personally, is just a quid-pro-quo of responding.  Respect in posting, respect in responding.  If I get disrespected in a post, I have no obligation to be respectful in responding.  My rule only, that you're not obligated to abide by

    Take note that the presidential debaters  are prone to straw man arguments, distraction, non sequiter etc etc....

    Don't get frustrated , whetstones are supposed to be rough.

My patience does wear thin from time to time, but there's Plane to demonstrate and exmplify what true patience really is       You are an excellent Jedi Master, and I a mere Padawan in your presence

Sometimes I like the way you talk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sjfd4hnE-PI

[Plane]

Fetuses are not citizens. .....

  And why not?

     This is the central point, you may point out that a boy is not a man and a man is not a woman and a woman is not a girl, but in spite of these very evident differences they are all eligible as citizens .

    It is certainly not enough to point out that a fetus is different, there has to be a difference that matters .

[Xavier_Onassis]

The difference that matters is obvious to all.

And it looks like the Supreme Court will finally take up the entire gay marriage issue.
The idea that states can have different laws about gay marriage and that every state can respect every other states contradictory laws is pretty absurd.

Personally, this issue does not matter to me one way or another, I am not gay, nor is anyone I know affected, nor do I think marriage is all that great an idea.
It is essentially being used as a smokescreen to prevent people from doing anything about the major issues: Warr and Peace, Rich and Poor, Black, White and Brown, and actual functioning Democracy.

[Plane]

The difference that matters is obvious to all.

Oh? How is it very obvious and also impossible to elucidate?

And it looks like the Supreme Court will finally take up the entire gay marriage issue.
The idea that states can have different laws about gay marriage and that every state can respect every other states contradictory laws is pretty absurd.

Personally, this issue does not matter to me one way or another, I am not gay, nor is anyone I know affected, nor do I think marriage is all that great an idea.
It is essentially being used as a smokescreen to prevent people from doing anything about the major issues: Warr and Peace, Rich and Poor, Black, White and Brown, and actual functioning Democracy.

I think the difference is that some of us think of democracy as a long term project , multigenerational , but a failure if individual rights in the present are not as respected as the future.

Abortion is a failure of individual rights .
Gay marrage is a failure of long term sustainability.