Author Topic: Members of & motivated by "The Religion of Peace" try to assassinate the Pope!  (Read 8220 times)

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sirs

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Yea, I would.  Now getting back to my question...you're trying to compare race with religion??
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Yea, I would.  Now getting back to my question...you're trying to compare race with religion??

Groups and subgroups. Please try to keep up.

Certainly you aren't saying that discriminating against religion is more palatable than discriminating against race.

There is no apples and oranges here.

There are groups and sub groups of that group.

Islamists who practice terror is a subgroup  of the larger group of people who practice Islam.

This really isn't a difficult concept to understand.





sirs

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People who practice a religion, practice such by choice.  People who are of a certain race, have no choice.  They are what they are.

When comparing apples, try to keep it to just apples
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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People who practice a religion, practice such by choice.

Most people who practice a religion were born into that religion.

And certainly you aren't saying that people should abandon their faith (Islam) because some (Al Queda)  of that faith practice it badly?

Because you just denied saying that Al Queda speaks for Islam in this very thread. So why should a Muslim give up their belief in their God because of Al Queda.







sirs

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People who practice a religion, practice such by choice.

Most people who practice a religion were born into that religion.

Irelevent.  It's a choice.  It's a choice to practice a religion.  It's also a choice to murder in the name of a religion.  One is just peachy, the other, not so much.  So trying to compare it to race, where a person is born a certain race, with no choice in the matter is kinda.........well, apple/oranges kinda thing


And certainly you aren't saying that people should abandon their faith (Islam) because some (Al Queda)  of that faith practice it badly?

Never even implied such a thing.  You're still not getting it, are you.  Choices......and repercussion of said choices.  That's the point.  The bad guys here are those radicals that have hijacked the religion of Islam, and using it to justify thier murdering of innocents.  The bad guys are not, and have never been Muslims who practice Islam.  So trying to keep repeating that point, as if that's the one being made by myself, only degrades the credibility of the accuser, when its never been an issue to begin with.  It's the actions of those who murder (AlQeada), in the name of Islam, that's the issue.

I'm a little stunned you're not grasping that








"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Henny

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Buddhists seemed to have a bad habit of catching themselves on fire

Also, apparently practicing self-mummification: http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/news-self-mummification-buddhist-monks

(Just an interesting aside.)

Xavier_Onassis

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Buddhists have only occasionally practiced self-immolation, and never have these events threatened the safety of anyone else. I don't think self-mummification poses a threat to anyone, either.

All in all, Buddhists are almost as peaceful as the Jains, who are more peaceful than anyone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism

In a world in which everyone was a Jain, we could probably have successful anarchy.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Come on BT...so you post more apples to oranges nonsense.
I ask for credible sources/findings of Associated Press anti-Muslim bias & UK Newspaper bias against Muslims
and you post some generic link about AP bias. So what?
Where are the credible sources for bias against Muslims from these organizations?
Do you not think if there was a problem our President would have called out AP?
CNN uses the term "Islamist" as well....does CNN have a bias against Muslims too?
Is it "biased" to call an Islamist an Islamist?
What news source on the earth has not been accused of some type of bias?
And again the more important point...
explain to me what is "biased" about a headline stating the fact that the terrorists were Islamist?
Do we just ignore the perpetrators own words so you can feel comfy in your political correctness?
It seems as though you want to pretend that these are just criminals unrelated to Islam....
that it is almost an accident they are Muslim & could just as easily be another religion...
when in fact no other religion today has anywhere near the scale of violence problem coming from it's ranks.


"And i guess the Black Panthers spoke for the Negro Race"

Why are you just making stuff up?
Did I ever say the Islamist "spoke for Islam"?
You imply I said that...show me where I said that?
That would be ridiculous.....that's not my point at all.....unfortunately they are the loudest voice of Islam right now.
Right now what voice in Islam is louder? What voice gets by far the most headlines? Sadly it's violence...
if US Black Panthers suddenly start flying planes into buildings, slaughtering thousands in schools, offices, buses..ect
Then hell yeah it's a big problem for the US Black population if Black Panthers say they are doing it to advance the black race in America.
As hard as you try for political correctness you can't separate the criminal from his motivation....it is what it is.

Ok....I am walking out the door to go watch some live college football and maybe a few "other things"....ya'll have a good day!







"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Is Michael Bloomberg to blame for the deaths of the 18 Muslim men in Indian-controlled Kashmir who rioted over reports that someone in America burned the Koran?

Let's think it through.

As I explained at length in an earlier column, I believe that the New York City mayor could have stopped the Park51 ("ground zero mosque") project months ago, long before it became a national story. It would have taken some wheeling and dealing and a few phone calls. Instead, in his grandiose pomposity, he went a different way.

Even if you don't buy that Bloomberg could have nipped this noxious weed in the bud, Commentary magazine editor John Podhoretz is surely correct that this wouldn't be nearly the controversy it is today if only Bloomberg had been capable of getting the "Freedom Tower" built in a timely manner.

Enter storefront pastor Terry Jones, who introduced the idiotic idea of Koran-burning to the American people. He clearly got his inspiration from the debate over the ground zero mosque. He chickened out, but not before he inspired others to do something similar. Two pastors in Tennessee held a private Koran-burning, and a New Jersey transit worker tore up and burned a few pages (and was fired for it). These acts, plus the media coverage of Jones' planned stunt, sparked the deadly riots in Kashmir.

So, should we put Bloomberg in the dock? Recall him from office? Drop him, bound and gagged, into downtown Lahore?

Alas, no. While we should criticize him for his thumbless grasp of church-state issues and his megalomaniacal incompetence, he's not to blame for the actions of others. And it isn't fair to hold people legally accountable for the evil or misguided deeds of others.

And the same basically goes for Jones. His plan to burn the Koran was stupid, irresponsible and repugnant, but it's not his fault that there are a significant number of Muslim men who are not only ready but eager to riot and kill in response to insults to Islam.

If you deny this, you are basically denying the humanity of Muslims. We take it as a given in this country that not only are all men created equal, but that each individual is responsible for his own actions. Each man and woman is a captain of his or her own self.

To say that Muslims have no choice in the matter, that they must act like animals, is to say that they are animals. If you tease a bear and he kills you, your stupidity is to blame. If you tease a man and he kills you, the murderer is to blame.

Again, I think burning the Koran is reprehensible. And I could live with a local law that banned Koran-burning (and flag-burning, Bible-burning, Torah-burning, etc.) because I think communities should be able to set standards of decency. But that hardly settles things. It's easy to condemn Koran-burning. What about those Danish cartoons of Mohammed (that Yale University won't even reproduce in a book on the controversy)? What about highbrow novels like "The Satanic Verses"? When Pope Benedict delivered his Regensburg address in 2006, he suggested that Islam had a link to violence. In response, many Muslims rioted. It'd be funny if it weren't so sad.

When Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer was asked in an interview about Koran-burning, he brought up former Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes' famous comment that the First Amendment "doesn't mean you can shout 'fire' in a crowded theater. ... Why? Because people will be trampled to death. And what is the crowded theater today? What is the being trampled to death?"

There are a number of grave problems with the crowded-theater cliche. First, you can -- even must -- yell "fire" in a crowded theater. It just has to be the truth.

But more to the point, fires are not human beings. Fire has no choice but to burn because that is what fire does. Humans have choices. Yet in this formulation (from which Breyer has somewhat retreated), Muslims are akin to soulless, unthinking flames. Taken seriously, this comparison suggests rational people have every reason to fear Muslims in much the same way they fear fire.

There are complex issues here. But the simple truth is the Islamist extremists who behead and riot do have a choice. They want to murder. What they want is an excuse, and they'll find one no matter what.


A Convenient Excuse
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Why do you consider building a community center to be equivalent to yelling FIRE! in a theatre?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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 ::)    Literal nazi strikes again
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Choices......and repercussion of said choices.  That's the point.  The bad guys here are those radicals that have hijacked the religion of Islam, and using it to justify thier murdering of innocents.  The bad guys are not, and have never been Muslims who practice Islam. 

Well you have it partly right. The bad guys are not Muslims who practice Islam. Where you have it wrong is that you say the bad guys are those radicals who have "hijacked" the religion and that the non bad guys simply have to renounce their religion in order to avoid your sneering disdain. That's where choice come in, right.

You don't commit the violent acts.

You walk your walk with your God, but because some infinitesimal small sub group of your fellow coreligionists behave badly your only option is to renounce your faith.

What a crock.





sirs

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Choices......and repercussion of said choices.  That's the point.  The bad guys here are those radicals that have hijacked the religion of Islam, and using it to justify thier murdering of innocents.  The bad guys are not, and have never been Muslims who practice Islam.  

Well you have it partly right. The bad guys are not Muslims who practice Islam.

FINALLY.  Now, let's hope the repetition of claiming I've been meaning that will cease


Where you have it wrong is that you say the bad guys are those radicals who have "hijacked" the religion and that the non bad guys simply have to renounce their religion in order to avoid your sneering disdain. That's where choice come in, right.

NO NO NO...NEVER SAID that, NEVER IMPLIED that.  Good gravy, why are you pulling this dren??  You must have it set in your mind, that I must hate Islam.  How, I have no idea.  But that apparently is so rooted to each and every comment made, no manner how often you're shown in error, and corrected, you're still going to pull it, aren't you.


You don't commit the violent acts.  You walk your walk with your God, but because some infinitesimal small sub group of your fellow coreligionists behave badly your only option is to renounce your faith.  What a crock.

And what a complete pile of AMBE.    :o   You show me ANYWHERE, where I've claimed such.  Not by 6 degrees of seperation, but where sirs directly implies that Muslims need to renounce their faith and take up.........<insert other religion/pastime here>  

Miss Henny is one of the greatest posters on this site, and more knowledgable of Islam that you and I combined.  You ask her, if any of my commentary on this topic rises to this level of you claiming my advocation that Muslims renounce their religion.


« Last Edit: September 18, 2010, 03:52:51 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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You are the one who brought up choice. Why would that be relevant in discussing groups and subgroups unless choosing to opt out of the group was the recommended course of action.

Perhaps you should explain why you think choice is relevant to the discussion.





sirs

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Yes, I brought up choice.  And it had nothing to do with denouncing one's religion.  That was your illogical leap, based on, I can only assume, your made up mind of my apparent hatred of Islam (sneering disdain   ::) )

What else could it be?

Choice has to do with one's decision making and the repercussions of those decisions.  Radicals murdering in the name of islam is a bad choice.  Buidling an Islamic Mosque in the shadow of thousands killed (rightly or wrongly, obviously wrongly) in the name of that religion, is a bad choice/decision.  It's insenstive, it's borderline looking to instigate hostility, given the insenstivity and intolerance currently being displayed by this Imam, and the vast majority of the citizenry that also disagree with this location selection. 

AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WANTING TO PREVENT SOMEONE FROM PRACTICING THEIR RELIGION, NOR ANY BIGOTED HATRED AIMED AT THAT RELIGION

Now, that's not to say there aren't those fringe folk, (the pastor wanting to burn the Koran comes to mind) that do hate Islam.  That's their own cross to have to bear.  But for you to insist I mean one thing when i've clearly and consistently have demonstrated the near polar opposite.......well, as I said earlier, merely degrades the credibility of the accuser 

Moving it even just a few blocks away, or working towards a compromise with the City would have demonstrated this supposed tolerance, everyone keeps saying is the foundation of Islam.  But no, dammit, an Islamic cultural center must be built in the shadow of the thousands murdered when the WTC came down in the name (wrongly of course) of Islam

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle