DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Kramer on May 29, 2010, 11:12:56 PM
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I hear people talkin' bad,
About the way we have to live here in this country,
Harpin' on the wars we fight,
An' gripin' 'bout the way things oughta be.
An' I don't mind 'em switchin' sides,
An' standin' up for things they believe in.
When they're runnin' down my country, man,
They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
I read about some squirrely guy,
Who claims, he just don't believe in fightin'.
An' I wonder just how long,
The rest of us can count on bein' free.
They love our milk an' honey,
But they preach about some other way of livin'.
When they're runnin' down my country, hoss,
They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
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Typical fascist crap. "Believe what I believe and think what I think or I'll beat the living shit out of you."
Hitler and Mussolini woulda loved it.
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Typical fascist crap. "Believe what I believe and think what I think or I'll beat the living shit out of you."
Similar to "Believe what we believe and think what we think or we'll line you up against the wall."
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<<Similar to "Believe what we believe and think what we think or we'll line you up against the wall.">>
Yeah, exactly; the difference is in the hypocrisy. The U.S.S.R. did not claim to be a land of free speech.
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Isn't Merle exercising his right to free speech?
And i doubt he is the government which is who the free speech clause applies to.
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<<Isn't Merle exercising his right to free speech?>>
Most people would deduce that he is issuing threats of violent assault and battery against anyone who expresses opinions he disagrees with. Basically intimidating others in their right to free speech.
<<And i doubt he is the government which is who the free speech clause applies to.>>
Whatever he is or isn't, he sure as bitchin hell does NOT have the right to intimidate others into silence by the threat of violence. Someone needs to tell that pussy to his face what a shit country the U.S.A. is, and exercise a punishing right of self-defence if the singing Nazi ever tries to do what he's been threatening to do.
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Does his song intimidate you?
Are ya scared for your safety?
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Typical fascist crap. "Believe what I believe and think what I think or I'll beat the living shit out of you."
Hitler and Mussolini woulda loved it.
don't you like art?
I bet there are some rap lyrics that sound a bit more offensive than that, especially to women. Oh but wait, your comments about Hillary and Sarah are at the very least on par with some of the rap crap that I've heard.
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I have no objection at all to Haggard or his song. He's got every right to compose it and sing it - - the proper answer would be in another song, addressed to the loud-mouth bully and telling him, "Ain't mah fault yer country sucks, man, an ef yew er yer fightin side wanna do ennathang abaowdit, come an geddit mah fren." (I know, I won't quit my day job.)
So I admit, my earlier post in this thread was wrong, and you guys, for maybe once in your lives, were right.
Wonder which one would get more airplay, assuming the songwriter would be up to Merle's level of talent and not mine? Even if my song ultimately got better musical and production values than Merle's, the MSM would either block it off completely, or to avoid charges of censorship, play it once for every 300,000 times they played Merle's Nazi-Redneck song.
It's also noteworthy that whereas there are plenty of talented left-wing song-writers, none of them stoop to the kind of thuggery and speech-intimidating violence that the right-wing songwriters like Haggard do. Dylan in The Times They Are a-Changin' referred to the right being swept aside by the tide of history, warned of violence that would flow from right-wing war-mongering in A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall, and also in With God on Our Side, and seemed to glorify the Weather Underground in Subterranean Homesick Blues, but there were never any direct threats to punch out anyone's lights for voicing criticism of the country, as Haggard does.
But, yeah, the way to counter fascist or Nazi influence in music is with better music. Too bad America's leftist songwriters are cowed into silence by these ass-holes.
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Merle Haggard has a right to sing his silly song.
But that does not make it less silly.
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Merle Haggard has a right to sing his silly song.
But that does not make it less silly.
I guess you got your feelings hurt because in his lyrics he's referring to losers like you. So of course you lash out at him and call his music silly. Poor XO got his feelings hurt.
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Well Kramer I wonder how YOU'D react to a song threatening to punch your lights out it you choose to express your views on a particular subject?
Inquiring minds need to know.
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"...........the proper answer would be in another song, addressed to the loud-mouth bully and telling him, "Ain't mah fault yer country sucks, man, an ef yew er yer fightin side wanna do ennathang abaowdit, come an geddit mah fren." (I know, I won't quit my day job.)
...........
Wonder which one would get more airplay, assuming the songwriter would be up to Merle's level of talent and not mine?
The answer my friend is blowin in the wind.
What were the big anti-establishment hits of China and the USSR contemporanious to these songs?
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<<What were the big anti-establishment hits of China and the USSR contemporanious to these songs?>>
Who gives a shit? Neither China nor the U.S.S.R. pretends to be a bastion of freedom of expression for dissidents. Never did.
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<<What were the big anti-establishment hits of China and the USSR contemporanious to these songs?>>
Who gives a shit? Neither China nor the U.S.S.R. pretends to be a bastion of freedom of expression for dissidents. Never did.
That is why nobody liked to be there , if they know the whole of it. Wherever keeping the facts from the people is important to do, the people ought to show suspicion, lots .
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Well Kramer I wonder how YOU'D react to a song threatening to punch your lights out it you choose to express your views on a particular subject?
Inquiring minds need to know.
Do you think the number of people who had their ass kicked because of the lyrics to this song is less than, equal to or more than the number who got their ass kicked because they deigned to not show solidarity with striking union workers and applied for open jobs on the other side of a picket line.
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<<That is why nobody liked to be there , if they know the whole of it. >>
Who says "nobody liked to be there?" Kind of a ludicrous statement considering there are more people there than in any other country on the face of the earth.
<<Wherever keeping the facts from the people is important to do, the people ought to show suspicion, lots .>>
Again your understanding of life in a communist country seems to be formed wholly from the unthinking absorption of decades of bullshit Cold War propaganda, with absolutely no connection to objective reality.
First of all, you don't "keep the facts" from the people who live there. They are smart enough to know when they've got food in their bellies and a roof over their head. They know if their kids are in school getting an education or not. At any scholastic level. They know if they have access to medical care when they get sick or injured, and they can form an opinion of the quality of medical care based on a number of things, the doctor's attitude to them, his apparent grasp of the subject matter and the results obtained. They know from conversations at the family dinner table how their situation compares with their parents' and their grandparents' situation, how the family lived before the Revolution and how it lives after. And they know all of that intimately - - far better than you or I or any of the CNN/MSNBC/etc. news media know or will ever tell you.
The people are suspicious when they have cause to be suspicious, trusting when they feel its time to trust. They certainly don't need YOU or any other American to tell them when they ought to be suspicious of their leaders. That is the height of arrogance.
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In other words, shut up, do as your told, and everything will be just fine
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<<Do you think the number of people who had their ass kicked because of the lyrics to this song is less than, equal to or more than the number who got their ass kicked because they deigned to not show solidarity with striking union workers and applied for open jobs on the other side of a picket line.>>
Good question but impossible to answer. We don't know how many people got their ass kicked because some shithead crypto-Nazis were listening to Merle Haggard's song, so it's kind of hard to tell.
Do you think the number of people who got their ass kicked because they deigned to not show solidarity with striking union workers is less than, equal to or more than the number of union organizers and early joiners who got beat up, murdered or disappeared by company goons, scabs and strikebreakers?
Inquiring minds need to know.
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I would think "scabs' would be either ahead or gaining rapidly to claim the mantle of victim.
When is the last time a union boss got offed by Pinkerton?
100 years ago?
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Funny you should ask, being from Georgia yourself. Ever hear of a place called Gainesville?
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I find it rather worthless to debate the intellectual content of a country music song about some fool who wants to fight with those he disagrees with.
This is like putting forth "Okie from Muskogee" as a valid argument about utopian ideas.
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Funny you should ask, being from Georgia yourself. Ever hear of a place called Gainesville?
Yeah, we beat them for the state championship in football in 69. Big into poultry.
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First of all, you don't "keep the facts" from the people who live there. They are smart enough to know when they've got food in their bellies and a roof over their head.
Are you still giveing Communism credit for feeding the people better than previous or post communist regimes , with no such evidence at all?
I think you are far too little a sceptic.
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<<Are you still giveing Communism credit for feeding the people better than previous or post communist regimes , with no such evidence at all?>>
Yeah, I was there and I saw it. Homeless and street people all over the fucking place. Orphans camping out in the streets. Retired old folks working two jobs day and night to make ends meet. Billion-dollar state industries sold off to "the people" for worthless share certificates, that you could buy hundreds of at any street bazaar for nothing more than pocket change. Drunks lying out in the fucking streets and gutters. In Odessa, you had to step over their bodies on the sidewalks because the gutters were full. University chemistry professors moonlighting as maitre-d's at nightclubs in Moscow. I understand the life expectancy stats took a real nose-dive after the fall of communism too.
<<I think you are far too little a sceptic.>>
And I think YOU don't know WTF you are talking about.
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<<Are you still giveing Communism credit for feeding the people better than previous or post communist regimes , with no such evidence at all?>>
Yeah, I was there and I saw it. Homeless and street people all over the fucking place. Orphans camping out in the streets. Retired old folks working two jobs day and night to make ends meet. Billion-dollar state industries sold off to "the people" for worthless share certificates, that you could buy hundreds of at any street bazaar for nothing more than pocket change. Drunks lying out in the fucking streets and gutters. In Odessa, you had to step over their bodies on the sidewalks because the gutters were full. University chemistry professors moonlighting as maitre-d's at nightclubs in Moscow. I understand the life expectancy stats took a real nose-dive after the fall of communism too.
<<I think you are far too little a sceptic.>>
And I think YOU don't know WTF you are talking about.
I don't think you saw any change at all , just the curtain fell and the pretense was dropped.
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<<I don't think you saw any change at all , just the curtain fell and the pretense was dropped.>>
You really oughtta talk to some people, plane. They KNOW how they lived before the fall of communism and they know how they lived after. Some of the examples I gave were real-life people my wife and I spoke with. There was no "curtain." Communism looked after them, capitalism didn't. Pure and simple. But you are committed to one POV and all the evidence in the world won't shake your commitment. I suppose the life-expectancy stats were faked by the Commies and Yeltsin just let the cat out of the bag, eh?
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<<I don't think you saw any change at all , just the curtain fell and the pretense was dropped.>>
You really oughtta talk to some people, plane. They KNOW how they lived before the fall of communism and they know how they lived after. Some of the examples I gave were real-life people my wife and I spoke with. There was no "curtain." Communism looked after them, capitalism didn't. Pure and simple.
The pure and simple part is largely 1 point that advocates that the Government "take care of you", while the other advocates Freedom to make one's own choices in life. And one of the evil parts to Communism, is it HAS to take from those who want freedom, HAS to take the labors & $$$ from those who want liberty, to feed the government beast to make Communism work
I'll take Freedom, thank you
And folks will continue to note, no "insults", no calling Tee a liar, merely debate inspired rhetoric. If Tee wants to keep lying about what sirs supposedly does, that's also wide open for all to see
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<<I don't think you saw any change at all , just the curtain fell and the pretense was dropped.>>
You really oughtta talk to some people, plane. They KNOW how they lived before the fall of communism and they know how they lived after. Some of the examples I gave were real-life people my wife and I spoke with. There was no "curtain." Communism looked after them, capitalism didn't. Pure and simple.
The pure and simple part is largely 1 point that advocates that the Government "take care of you", while the other advocates Freedom to make one's own choices in life. And one of the evil parts to Communism, is it HAS to take from those who want freedom, HAS to take the labors & $$$ from those who want liberty, to feed the government beast to make Communism work
I'll take Freedom, thank you
Ronald Reagan, 1986:
Memorial Day is an occasion of special importance to all Americans, because it is a day sacred to the memory of all those Americans who made the supreme sacrifice for the liberties we enjoy. We will never forget or fail to honor these heroes to whom we owe so much. We honor them best when we resolve to cherish and defend the liberties for which they gave their lives. Let us resolve to do all in our power to assure the survival and the success of liberty so that our children and their children for generations to come can live in an America in which freedom?s light continues to shine.
The Congress, in establishing Memorial Day, called for it to be a day of tribute to America?s fallen, and also a day of national prayer for lasting peace. This Nation has always sought true peace. We seek it still. Our goal is peace in which the highest aspirations of our people, and people everywhere, are secure: peace with freedom, with justice, and with opportunity for human development. This is the permanent peace for which we pray, not only for ourselves but for all generations.
The defense of peace, like the defense of liberty, requires more than lip service. It requires vigilance, military strength, and the willingness to take risks and to make sacrifices. The surest guarantor of both peace and liberty is our unflinching resolve to defend that which has been purchased for us by our fallen heroes.
On Memorial Day, let us pray for peace ? not only for ourselves, but for all those who seek freedom and justice.
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<<I don't think you saw any change at all , just the curtain fell and the pretense was dropped.>>
You really oughtta talk to some people, plane. They KNOW how they lived before the fall of communism and they know how they lived after. Some of the examples I gave were real-life people my wife and I spoke with. There was no "curtain." Communism looked after them, capitalism didn't. Pure and simple. But you are committed to one POV and all the evidence in the world won't shake your commitment. I suppose the life-expectancy stats were faked by the Commies and Yeltsin just let the cat out of the bag, eh?
Well put!
What stats provided by Mousoulini do you trust?
Did the world know how much environmental polution was produced in Asia during the USSR tenure?
What happened to the Aral sea?(one of the worlds great lakes , seems to be missing)
Yes we learned a lot of stuff when the Communists fell to peaces , by the way how did they fall to peaces if everyone was satisfied ?
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<<Well put!
<<What stats provided by Mousoulini do you trust?>>
I've never seen any stats provided by Mussolini so I can't really answer your question. I don't know which ones I trust and which ones I don't trust. I believe on the basis of what I've seen in Russia that the longevity stats probably did decline substantially after the fall of communism. The homelessness, alcoholism, criminality, impoverishment, loss of free medical care, loss of pensions, etc. were all too obvious and were everywhere one looked, affecting everyone one spoke with. How the hell could any of that have been GOOD for life expectancy?
<<Did the world know how much environmental polution was produced in Asia during the USSR tenure?>>
They polluted the fucking earth. You think they were the only ones?
<<What happened to the Aral sea?(one of the worlds great lakes , seems to be missing)>>
They pumped out too much water for crop irrigation and then it went dry. But maybe we should move on to more current events - - what happened to the Gulf of fucking Mexico?
<<Yes we learned a lot of stuff when the Communists fell to peaces , by the way how did they fall to peaces if everyone was satisfied ?>>
plane, believe it or not, you've finally stumped me. That's one of the biggest mysteries in the world to me, and one I'd dearly love to read up on and study. I just don't know. I think about it a lot. WTF went wrong? My tentative conclusions are that it was sabotaged from within by witting or unwitting agents of the U.S. and/or Great Britain. They were fucked. Gorbachev was either a fool or a traitor, but it's way bigger than Gorbachev. I can accept that there were huge flaws in the system, some of them even inherent and unavoidable, but I can't believe that a dream that big was simply allowed to die. That all of the sacrifices made by all of the Communists over all of those decades were - - overnight - - put to naught by the incredible ass-hole decisions of the "liberalizing" leadership. This was a fucking disaster, the biggest one of the 20th Century, the betrayal of years of planning and sacrifice. How DID they "fall to pieces?" For me that is the Mystery of the 20th Century.
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<<Well put!
<<What stats provided by Mousoulini do you trust?>>
I've never seen any stats provided by Mussolini so I can't really answer your question. I don't know which ones I trust and which ones I don't trust. I believe on the basis of what I've seen in Russia that the longevity stats probably did decline substantially after the fall of communism. The homelessness, alcoholism, criminality, impoverishment, loss of free medical care, loss of pensions, etc. were all too obvious and were everywhere one looked, affecting everyone one spoke with. How the hell could any of that have been GOOD for life expectancy?
<<Did the world know how much environmental polution was produced in Asia during the USSR tenure?>>
They polluted the fucking earth. You think they were the only ones?
<<What happened to the Aral sea?(one of the worlds great lakes , seems to be missing)>>
They pumped out too much water for crop irrigation and then it went dry. But maybe we should move on to more current events - - what happened to the Gulf of fucking Mexico?
<<Yes we learned a lot of stuff when the Communists fell to peaces , by the way how did they fall to peaces if everyone was satisfied ?>>
plane, believe it or not, you've finally stumped me. That's one of the biggest mysteries in the world to me, and one I'd dearly love to read up on and study. I just don't know. I think about it a lot. WTF went wrong? My tentative conclusions are that it was sabotaged from within by witting or unwitting agents of the U.S. and/or Great Britain. They were fucked. Gorbachev was either a fool or a traitor, but it's way bigger than Gorbachev. I can accept that there were huge flaws in the system, some of them even inherent and unavoidable, but I can't believe that a dream that big was simply allowed to die. That all of the sacrifices made by all of the Communists over all of those decades were - - overnight - - put to naught by the incredible ass-hole decisions of the "liberalizing" leadership. This was a fucking disaster, the biggest one of the 20th Century, the betrayal of years of planning and sacrifice. How DID they "fall to pieces?" For me that is the Mystery of the 20th Century.
It is only a mystery because you think Adam Smith simple and Karl Marx sophisticated.
If you had understood Smith first, you would have laughed at Marxism.
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<<It is only a mystery because you think Adam Smith simple and Karl Marx sophisticated.>>
I'm sure that's the general consensus, but I never had the pleasure of reading either of those gentlemen.
<<If you had understood Smith first, you would have laughed at Marxism.>>
What I know of Marxism makes a lot of sense to me. I don't see anything to laugh at, and since I've heard just about every single anti-communist argument that there is, I would assume that somewhere, buried in one or more of them, are the basic ideas of Adam Smith. I found none of them convincing. To me, communism made the most sense, but it had some problems that I thought of as difficult but not impossible to resolve. Since Capitalism also has serious problems that I think are difficult but not necessarily impossible to resolve, I chose communism simply because it promised a better and more equitable world for mankind, and was based on love of one's fellow man, whereas capitalism promised eternal struggles of each against all and was based on greed and selfishness.
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<<It is only a mystery because you think Adam Smith simple and Karl Marx sophisticated.>>
I'm sure that's the general consensus, but I never had the pleasure of reading either of those gentlemen.
<<If you had understood Smith first, you would have laughed at Marxism.>>
What I know of Marxism makes a lot of sense to me. I don't see anything to laugh at, and since I've heard just about every single anti-communist argument that there is, I would assume that somewhere, buried in one or more of them, are the basic ideas of Adam Smith. I found none of them convincing. To me, communism made the most sense, but it had some problems that I thought of as difficult but not impossible to resolve. Since Capitalism also has serious problems that I think are difficult but not necessarily impossible to resolve, I chose communism simply because it promised a better and more equitable world for mankind, and was based on love of one's fellow man, whereas capitalism promised eternal struggles of each against all and was based on greed and selfishness.
Although Adam Smith did his writeing too early for it to be considered an answer to Communism , he laid down laws that Communism tried to ignore.
Understanding the reason at the base of the systems ought to be early in the process.
Communism promised pie in the sky did it?
That would make me suspicious right there.
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<<Although Adam Smith did his writeing too early for it to be considered an answer to Communism , he laid down laws that Communism tried to ignore.>>
I don't know enough to dispute his "laws," but I guess they probably supply some of the ideas in the anti-Marxist literature.
<<Understanding the reason at the base of the systems ought to be early in the process.>>
That sounds reasonable< but there might be some disagreement over what constitutes "the reason at the base of the systems."
<<Communism promised pie in the sky did it? That would make me suspicious right there.>>
I don't think that's what it promised. I think you must have confused Communism with Christianity. Are you suspicious of Christianity?
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<<Although Adam Smith did his writeing too early for it to be considered an answer to Communism , he laid down laws that Communism tried to ignore.>>
I don't know enough to dispute his "laws," but I guess they probably supply some of the ideas in the anti-Marxist literature.
<<Understanding the reason at the base of the systems ought to be early in the process.>>
That sounds reasonable< but there might be some disagreement over what constitutes "the reason at the base of the systems."
<<Communism promised pie in the sky did it? That would make me suspicious right there.>>
I don't think that's what it promised. I think you must have confused Communism with Christianity. Are you suspicious of Christianity?
I love Christianity , but I would not ask you to adopt it on my word , read the relivant scriptures for yourself and try to get the sense of them. I will answer questions as I can , but it is the power of God that opens understanding to scriptures which can be miracculously closed otherwise. Want another thread for that?
Adam Smith wrote nothing in answer to Communism , Marx wasn't published yet. If that doesn't make his writeing clean of anti-communism I don't know what would.
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<<I love Christianity , but I would not ask you to adopt it on my word , read the relivant scriptures for yourself and try to get the sense of them. I will answer questions as I can , but it is the power of God that opens understanding to scriptures which can be miracculously closed otherwise. >>
That wasn't a serious question - - I was kidding you. You said you were suspicious of Communism because it promised pie in the sky. That was never one of Communism's promises, but numerous opponents of Christianity had criticized it (Christianity) exactly for its "Pie in the Sky" promises. In fact there's a popular folk-song poking fun at Christian preachers entitled "There'll be Pie in the Sky When You Die (It's a Lie!") So I took advantage of the confusion to ask if you also were suspicious of Christianity because it promised Pie in the Sky, just like you thought Communism did.
<<Want another thread for that?>>
No, that was just a joke on my part, it's not worth a whole thread. If it had been a better joke, I wouldn't have had to explain it.
<<Adam Smith wrote nothing in answer to Communism , Marx wasn't published yet. If that doesn't make his writeing clean of anti-communism I don't know what would.>>
I didn't claim that Adam Smith wrote anti-communist stuff, only that some of the stuff he wrote has probably found its way into the arguments of the anti-communists who came after both Smith and Marx.
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The truth has a definate anti-comunist bias .
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<<The truth has a definate anti-comunist bias .>>
The class war IS the truth.
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<<The truth has a definate anti-comunist bias .>>
The class war IS the truth.
Oh are we in diffrent classes?
I havent asked before , because I havent cared.
I still don't really if you don't tell me about your caste I will continue to assume its unimportance.
What class is our President ?
What power has the English house of Lords?
Class struggle was almost over when Marx was a young man.
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<<Oh are we in diffrent classes?>>
No, you and the Du Ponts are in the same class as all the rest of America. Haven't you noticed all the similarities? Why I bet both of you enjoy a glass of cold beer on a hot summer day, don't you? Earn your living the same way? Go to the same schools? Vacation in the same places? Who the hell would ever think you're in different classes?
<<I havent asked before , because I havent cared.>>
Naturally, which is why you are a wage slave and they are not.
<<I still don't really if you don't tell me about your caste I will continue to assume its unimportance.>>
Well, in a nutshell, that is exactly how the ruling class continues to rule. Nobody gives a shit.
<<What class is our President ?>>
bourgeois. middle class.
<<What power has the English house of Lords?>>
I dunno, next time you encounter one of them working next to you at the aircraft factory, why don't you ask him yourself?
<<Class struggle was almost over when Marx was a young man.>>
Preposterous.
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Many members of the House of Lords have economic power through their holdings in British industry.
There is no class struggle. Bah!
Any time you hear that corporations should pay no taxes whatever, that is the oligarchy launching another shell in the class struggle.
Any time you hear anyone advocating the "Fair Tax" or the "Flat Tax", this is the same thing.
The financial wealth (ie assets that control corporations) has become concentrated in a smaller and smaller number of hands in the US since the Reagan years.That is the class struggle taking place. When Wal*Mart refuses to recognize any union representation of their underpaid workers, that is the class struggle.
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I think that the reason the rich do not hang with you is your attitude , you might punch them .
I grew up with some rich kids , their dad was plain folks and so are they , mostly.
Sure I was tenant and they were owner but kids don't make this distinction.
One of these rich kids I knew became a rageing liberal , married a French Diplomat and lives in Mexico working for the Mexican antiquities department.
I remember her very fondly because when I was four she would read to me, that is the kind of thing that connects , curse all things that promote schism and jelosy.
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When you're a kid the class differences are less pronounced on a kid-to-kid basis. I grew up in pretty comfortable circumstances, but some of the kids I went to school with were super-rich. You'd never know it from their appearance, in fact one with whom I later became good friends impressed me originally as poor, from "the wrong side of the tracks" because of his unkempt appearance, tough-guy attitude and torn old sneakers, etc. He turned out to live in a very big home with a live-in cook, maid and chauffeur.
The fact is that the class war divisions are much more apparent among adults than among children. The fact remains, plane, despite your childhood associations, for the most part you don't belong to the same clubs and organizations, you don't work in the same factory, you don't vacation in the same places, you don't shop in the same stores, you don't drink the same booze, you don't attend the same weddings and funerals and unless you live in a very small town, you probably don't even go to the same church. Your kids don't go to the same schools unless you live in a very small town and for sure they won't go to the same universities (unless your kid wins a full scholarship.)
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The fact is that the class war divisions are much more apparent among adults than among children. The fact remains, plane, despite your childhood associations, for the most part you don't belong to the same clubs and organizations, you don't work in the same factory, you don't vacation in the same places, you don't shop in the same stores, you don't drink the same booze, you don't attend the same weddings and funerals and unless you live in a very small town, you probably don't even go to the same church. Your kids don't go to the same schools unless you live in a very small town and for sure they won't go to the same universities (unless your kid wins a full scholarship.)
And that is a problem because?
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<<And that is a problem because?>>
I think you misunderstood the point of my post. I was not referring to any problem. I was merely giving plane examples of the reality of class divisions. The observable signs of class distinctions which I pointed out are not in themselves any kind of problem.
The class war itself is not a problem either; the problem is the vastly unequal division of wealth. Class war is the SOLUTION to that problem.
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We are also blessed with unequal attractiveness, height, weight, intelligence etc etc.
Should a war be declared on this unequal distribution of attributes?
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Nah, I think we should concentrate on stuff like food, medical care, education, housing.
But you're certainly welcome to act on your own weird priorities.
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The Trees
Rush
There is unrest in the forest,
There is trouble with the trees,
For the maples want more sunlight
And the oaks ignore their pleas.
The trouble with the maples,
(And they're quite convinced they're right)
They say the oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light.
But the oaks can't help their feelings
If they like the way they're made.
And they wonder why the maples
Can't be happy in their shade.
There is trouble in the forest,
And the creatures all have fled,
As the maples scream "Oppression!"
And the oaks just shake their heads
So the maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights.
"The oaks are just too greedy;
We will make them give us light."
Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.
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Nah, I think we should concentrate on stuff like food, medical care, education, housing.
But you're certainly welcome to act on your own weird priorities.
I have got almost enough.
the ideal condition.