We are less respected by the world?

[Plane]

I'm convinced that if there is going to be a peaceful solution in the Middle East, the first thing that has to go is this hypocritical and short-sighted condemnation of the other guy as "evil" and the general assumption that our side is "good" or at least not as evil as the other guy.

People are people, Arabs are no more intrinsically evil than Americans, Muslims no more intrinsically evil than Jews.  If the Arabs are blowing up buses, realize that this is not done casually, for laughs - - there is a lot of rage and bitterness that went into the making of that action.  Try to understand the sources.  Not the history of "the Arabs" or "the Palestinians" or "the Jews," but the personal  histories of the guys who bombed the bus.  What THEY went through in their lifetimes before they became suicide bombers or guerrilla fighters.

Fine then , but I don't want to hear any more complaining about houses being bulldozed , that action, done in rage or not , gives the occupants a chance to get out alive , bombing the bus fails to do that. If the Palestinians are legitimate to bomb the bus than the Isrelis are legitimate to get drastic too.

You are going to have to get over the notion that one side is "right " and "rightious" and the other is not , neither side needs violence at all , except that the other side needs it.


By the Way I seriously doubt that any bus bomber ever took the life story of his victims into account before killing them , why does his life story matter more than theirs?

[Xavier_Onassis]

There is no way the government in the USA could bulldoze a house in vengeance. Why are the Israelis so special? This is simply a travesty of justice, and should be denounced oin the strongest terms. If the PLO, Hamas, or Hezbollah blow up buses or bulldoze homes, that is equally as wrong, and THAT should also be denounced in the same way.

[Plane]

There is no way the government in the USA could bulldoze a house in vengeance. Why are the Israelis so special? This is simply a travesty of justice, and should be denounced oin the strongest terms. If the PLO, Hamas, or Hezbollah blow up buses or bulldoze homes, that is equally as wrong, and THAT should also be denounced in the same way.

It may be out of fashion in our generation , but General Sherman made a business of it.

[Xavier_Onassis]

It may be out of fashion in our generation , but General Sherman made a business of it.

That was during a war, either with the Rebels or the Indians.
There is no state of war between Palestine and Israel.

[Plane]

It may be out of fashion in our generation , but General Sherman made a business of it.

That was during a war, either with the Rebels or the Indians.
There is no state of war between Palestine and Israel.

I wish they thought so.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I wish they thought so.


The problem is that the US government backs Israel as though there WAS a state of war, and arms the Israelis and says dumbassed crap like "Israel is our closeset ally", when clearly this is not so.

Israel is a beggar nation. It depends on the US for its bellicose strutting. The US gets nothing in return. US politicians get Jewish votes, and that's about it.

[Plane]

I wish they thought so.


The problem is that the US government backs Israel as though there WAS a state of war, and arms the Israelis and says dumbassed crap like "Israel is our closeset ally", when clearly this is not so.

Israel is a beggar nation. It depends on the US for its bellicose strutting. The US gets nothing in return. US politicians get Jewish votes, and that's about it.

If they did not need so much military support they would not need anything from us at all.

[Michael Tee]

<< . . . I don't want to hear any more complaining about houses being bulldozed , that action, done in rage or not , gives the occupants a chance to get out alive , bombing the bus fails to do that. If the Palestinians are legitimate to bomb the bus than the Isrelis are legitimate to get drastic too.>>

You're comparing apples to oranges.  The Israeli equivalent to the bus bombing is not bulldozing houses, but firing a missile into an elementary school or a crowded marketplace or apartment building.

<<You are going to have to get over the notion that one side is "right " and "rightious" and the other is not , neither side needs violence at all , except that the other side needs it.>>

The reality, and my argument itself, are that BOTH sides resort to lethal violence against the other, so that a first step in resolving the problem is to stop demonizing one side or the other as unfit negotiating partners or as people who only understand the language of violence and killing.


<<By the Way I seriously doubt that any bus bomber ever took the life story of his victims into account before killing them , why does his life story matter more than theirs?>>

It's all about motivation, and motivation is all about root causes.  You already know why the Israelis bulldoze homes and fire missiles into crowded marketplaces and you know their life stories enough to understand how they contributed to the current political and tactical positions that they hold.  His life story doesn't "matter" any more than theirs or anyone else's, but if you don't understand it, you won't really understand fully his motivation, and thus you will not fully understand one of the root causes of the conflict.

What do you have against hearing the life story of the bus bomber in his own words or in the words of his surviving loved ones?  Is there something you are afraid you will be told, something that you no longer will be able to avoid?

[Xavier_Onassis]

Israel is a beggar nation. It depends on the US for its bellicose strutting. The US gets nothing in return. US politicians get Jewish votes, and that's about it.

If they did not need so much military support they would not need anything from us at all.

===============================================================
That is a total crock. Israel would be a Third World nation like Jordan or Syria if not for tons of US aid and forgiven loans, tax breaks for American Jews who donate to Israeli charities in the billions, and bazillions of Jewish money that flows out of the US into Israel.

The US has consistently sent more foreign aid to Israel (population under six million) than to any other nation on the planet, narly ALL of which are poorer than Israel.

When a rocket from Hexzbollah hits one of those few villages on the border, the next day there are Amerian reporters, interviewing the victims, (sometimes there are no casualties) interviewing their US relatives, giving all the names of all the Witnessess as well as the victims. A major in-depth report.

When a home is bulldozed, the name of the family is not mentioned or barely mentioned, the relatives are not interviewed, the segment takes about two minutes.

[Plane]

<< . . . I don't want to hear any more complaining about houses being bulldozed , that action, done in rage or not , gives the occupants a chance to get out alive , bombing the bus fails to do that. If the Palestinians are legitimate to bomb the bus than the Isrelis are legitimate to get drastic too.>>

You're comparing apples to oranges.  The Israeli equivalent to the bus bombing is not bulldozing houses, but firing a missile into an elementary school or a crowded marketplace or apartment building.

<<You are going to have to get over the notion that one side is "right " and "rightious" and the other is not , neither side needs violence at all , except that the other side needs it.>>

The reality, and my argument itself, are that BOTH sides resort to lethal violence against the other, so that a first step in resolving the problem is to stop demonizing one side or the other as unfit negotiating partners or as people who only understand the language of violence and killing.


<<By the Way I seriously doubt that any bus bomber ever took the life story of his victims into account before killing them , why does his life story matter more than theirs?>>

It's all about motivation, and motivation is all about root causes.  You already know why the Israelis bulldoze homes and fire missiles into crowded marketplaces and you know their life stories enough to understand how they contributed to the current political and tactical positions that they hold.  His life story doesn't "matter" any more than theirs or anyone else's, but if you don't understand it, you won't really understand fully his motivation, and thus you will not fully understand one of the root causes of the conflict.

What do you have against hearing the life story of the bus bomber in his own words or in the words of his surviving loved ones?  Is there something you are afraid you will be told, something that you no longer will be able to avoid?

That is almost right , I am afaraid that bus bombing as a tactic will seem effective if it is the way to get the story told, it will seem wise and worth doing , instead of foolish and innefective.

Perhaps they should just tell their pitifull story without coveringthemselves with someone elese's blood first , it kinda spoils the pity.

[Michael Tee]

<<That is almost right , I am afaraid that bus bombing as a tactic will seem effective if it is the way to get the story told, it will seem wise and worth doing , instead of foolish and innefective.

<<Perhaps they should just tell their pitifull story without coveringthemselves with someone elese's blood first , it kinda spoils the pity.>>

The issue is not pity but demonization.  They are demonized for resorting to violence but the Israelis are not.  IHMO, the Israelis' stories are told and retold ad infinitum and we understand all too well their motivation, even when they unleash lethal force on civilians.  Thus they are never demonized in the American MSM.

The Arab bus bomber's story is much less well known.  Not only is he badly misunderstood, but he is demonized as the Israelis never are.

On that theory that understanding is the first step on the road to a peaceful resolution, it is essential that America (or anyone else interested in the idea) understands the bus bombers' stories as well as the Israelis' stories.  No resolution is going to come from a situation where both parties are morally culpable but only one is demonized.  Basically you have a conflict in which one side doesn't even know who its opponent is.