Here's a bad omen for the Dem Party

[Michael Tee]

<<Here's some realities for Tee, that he and his fellow leftists/marxists/socialists don't get.  No, you're not smarter than the rest of us. >>

Everything I see indicates the contrary.  Sorry, sirs.

<<No, you're got going to change this nation into a socialist one, much less a communist one. >>

Probably not in the immediate future.  You're much likelier to get a fascist one, in fact you're already well on the way there.

<<Freedom is just that damn important to us.  It was ingrained into our DNA and allowed to take root when the founders established this nation, and provided us a Constitution by which to govern.>>

Oh, yes, of course anyone can see how "freedom" is so damn important to you.  So damn important that it took a civil war to abolish slavery and another hundred years to put a legal end to Jim Crow and lynch law all across the south.  You are so full of shit that I think you will need to have a sewage disposal facilityi all to yourself.  So important to you that you have spent billions in the overthrow of democratically elected governments from Guatemala to Chile.  As we speak your "freedom loving" government is engaged in the monitoring of millions of private conversations, internet political discussions and has Bradley Manning incarcerated under inhuman conditions in total defiance of habeas corpus for releasing information about your government's nefarious activities and crimes all over the world.  Yeah you love freedom and it's ingrained in your DNA.  Know what's ingrained in your DNA really?  Tons and tons and tons of lying bullshit, THAT'S what's embedded in your DNA.  Plus an infinite capacity for self-deception.

<<I realize that those words, in our Constitution means squat to you. >>

Really?  Know who your Constitution really means squat to?  Your fucking PRESIDENT, that's who, who thinks he can wage war without the approval of Congress.  Your dip-shit Congress who sit silently and watch with their thumbs up their own asses as your "President" strips them of their Constitutional power to take the nation into war.  Your President who takes it upon himself to murder American citizens without due process of law in total defiance of their Constitutional Fifth Amendment rights to due process.  How can you write the shit that you do?  Are you totally ignorant of every fucking thing that happens around you, or are you just too careless to think about the crap that you write?

<<I realize you think America is this terrorist nation. >>

No shit, Sherlock.  And what do YOU think?  That it's a peace-loving, law-abiding nation?

<<Anything that you can conclude to justify that template is on your table, be it simply calling those you disagree with fascists . . . >>

Yeah, so just out of curiosity, sirs, what do YOU call people you disagree with?  I'll give you a reasonable chance to honour the challenge and then I'll save you the trouble by scrolling through your recent posts to answer the question for you.

<< . . .  calling people of another race vile names, because they don't agree with your twisted ideology, >>

We've been through this before many times and anyone who claims that I call Sowell, Cain or anyone else an "Uncle Tom" simply because they don't agree with my ideology is just plain full of shit.  I don't propose to argue this point any more, simply because it's absurd.

<< . . .be it calling for revolution, be it civil or armed. >>

I don't really call for it, just that, given the failure of democracy AND capitalism at the same time, it seems obvious to me that only a revolution can change the system.  It'll happen in the fullness of history.  It's inevitable.

<<Ends justify your means.>>

Fair enough.  My means don't include torture, they don't include a number of crimes and atrocities that fascism eagerly resorted to, but the means I endorse ("my" means) are in fact justified by the ends.  I guess in your own case, waterboarding, "collateral" civilian damage, breach of UN Convention obligations, spying on US citizens, murder without due process of US citizens, etc., are all means that you yourself would justify by their ends, so it's a little puzzling how your finger winds up pointing at ME in indignant accusation that ends justify MY means.  You're like BSB, you should be looking in the mirror when you make your ludicrous accusations.

Problem

Too many of us who believe in that freedom, in the Constitution, AND ARMED.  So you can rant, rave, call us all kinds of names, its going to get you no where, outside of an ulcer perhaps, and a 10month wait to be treated for it.  But knock your socks off

[sirs]

<<Here's some realities for Tee, that he and his fellow leftists/marxists/socialists don't get.  No, you're not smarter than the rest of us. >>

Everything I see indicates the contrary.  Sorry, sirs.

The 1st step in recovery is clearly evident

<<No, you're got going to change this nation into a socialist one, much less a communist one. >>

Probably not in the immediate future.  You're much likelier to get a fascist one, in fact you're already well on the way there.

Not in the latter future, not in any future, and damn sure not going to be a Fascist one either

<<Freedom is just that damn important to us.  It was ingrained into our DNA and allowed to take root when the founders established this nation, and provided us a Constitution by which to govern.>>

Oh, yes, of course anyone can see how "freedom" is so damn important to you. 

Yep.  The rest of our "history lesson" demonstrates precisely the steps it took to get us this far, thank you very much

<<I realize that those words, in our Constitution means squat to you. >>

Really?  Know who your Constitution really means squat to? 

I think I already answered that......socialists and communists.....folks like yourself.  But cudos on the repetative cursing, and yea, you're right, Obama's not too keen on it either.  But then again, he has to play the part of an American who supposedly does, while functioning as a socialist who merely sees it as an obstruction

<< . . .  calling people of another race vile names, because they don't agree with your twisted ideology, >>

We've been through this before many times and anyone who claims that I call Sowell, Cain or anyone else an "Uncle Tom" simply because they don't agree with my ideology is just plain full of shit.  I don't propose to argue this point any more, simply because it's absurd.

Yes, reality and facts to a die-hard toe tagged liberal....kryptonite to superman.  Yea, we have gone over that already, red is blue, yada yada

<< . . .be it calling for revolution, be it civil or armed. >>

I don't really call for it, just that, given the failure of democracy AND capitalism at the same time, it seems obvious to me that only a revolution can change the system.  It'll happen in the fullness of history.  It's inevitable.

See what I mean?

<<Ends justify your means.>>

Fair enough.  My means don't include torture, they don't include a number of crimes and atrocities that fascism eagerly resorted to, but the means I endorse ("my" means) are in fact justified by the ends.  

They include anything and everything to support "the revolution".  Do we need to go into the millions killed under Stalin?  They include anything and everything for the cause, and if it required torture, you'd be all over it like flies to crap

[Michael Tee]

<< . . . and if it required torture, you'd be all over it like flies to crap>>

LOL.  I'm afraid the record so far shows otherwise.  YOU'RE the guy who endorsed waterboarding, simply by refusing to admit that it's torture, whereas I rightly condemned it as torture.   So if I wouldn't even justify waterboarding, as you have, how could I possibly go for torture when I won't even waterboard?

Seems  to me, sirs, that YOU are the "Superman" to whom the FACTS are Kryptonite.  How you gonna get out of this one, Superman?

[sirs]

You're right, I don't have a problem with a technique that does no physical damage, no dismemberment, no disfiguration, and causes no death.  I'm sure you'll get back to us with evidence of my support of ACTUAL tortures.  Can't say the same for the likes of Stalin now, can we.  Oh that's right, its not torture you advocate in support of the Revolution.  If they don't join, or are impeding in any way, you just support mass killing.  ahhh, my bad

[Michael Tee]

I'm amazed to see that you're so fucking arrogant that you think you can create your own definition of "torture."  Unfortunately for your megalomaniac delusions of grandeur, the United Nations Convention Against Torture ("UNCAT") which your own country has signed and ratified, has already defined "torture" and believe it or not, did not adopt the King Sirs definition.  I'm sure you will be surpised to learn that the official definition of torture, binding upon your own government by its own free will, DOES NOT REQUIRE " physical damage, . . .  dismemberment . . .disfiguration, [or] death' and seems to cover waterboarding pretty well.

However, apart from your rather bizarre definitions of what does or doesn't constitute torture, I was kind of interested in the pathetic excuse for logic that seems to be governing your disjointed thinking process.  For example, let's say that waterboarding weren't torture, as you have been contending all along.  How do you get from me not even countenancing the "non-torture" of waterboarding (which you are perfectly OK with) to approving torture as one of my means?  Get it?  How do I get from a rejection of waterboarding to an approval of torture?

Come on, Superman, THAT is the Kryptonite in your path, let's see how you get over it.

[sirs]

As ususal, you're so arrogant in thinking you are the end all be all to what is, is, you purposely will try to blur torture, where someone being made to wear women's underwear, listen to loud music, or made to feel like their drowning, equates to having fingers dislocated, jaws broken, tongues ripped out, skinned burned.  Yea, they're analogus

All the while we're to ignore your suport of far more egregious acts, such as killing, in the name and support of the revolution.  Sorry, not fooling the rationally minded here

[Michael Tee]

LMFAO.  Well, at least we know that sirs, while absolutely and totally incapable of providing any logical explanation for the dilemma into which his own big mouth and foolishness have led him, has still not lost his capacity to spew out more illogical bullshit like a squid discharging ink.

In illustration of which, I reproduce below his "answer" to the question of how a guy who won't even support waterboarding will support torture, of which sirs' examples are "tongues ripped out," "skinning" and "burning."   Here's what sirs says - - IN FULL - - when challenged to explain how a guy who won't even waterboard gets to ripping out tongues, burning and skinning people:  (in italics)

As ususal, you're so arrogant in thinking you are the end all be all to what is, is, you purposely will try to blur torture, where someone being made to wear women's underwear, listen to loud music, or made to feel like their drowning, equates to having fingers dislocated, jaws broken, tongues ripped out, skinned burned.  Yea, they're analogus

All the while we're to ignore your suport of far more egregious acts, such as killing, in the name and support of the revolution.  Sorry, not fooling the rationally minded here


Yep, that's it, folks.  That's the WHOLE of sirs' answer to a challenge to explain how someone like me, who wouldn't even waterboard anyone, can be accused of wanting to "torture" anyone.  To debate sirs is truly to enter the Theatre of the Absurd.

(It's also an example of the lunatic ability of sirs to attempt to define "torture" in his own terms, when the term has already been defined for him by the international community INCLUDING USA in the UN's Convention Against Torture, a definition which, strangely, failed or neglected to use ANY of the terms that sirs used to define it.  Now how could that be?)

sirs, in all seriousness here, I would like to commend and thank you for playing the game right through to the end.  You're a good sport and not a quitter.  You had a logically indefensible position to defend and instead of walking away from it or descending into personal insult, you did the best you could and played it out.  And in a decent and respectable manner.  Thank you.   Hope I wasn't too hard on you in my conclusions, which were not meant to be taken literally.

MT

[sirs]

Everyone notice Tee's transparent dodge as well??