Author Topic: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship  (Read 42658 times)

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Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2010, 06:43:33 PM »
Anchor Babies: illegal immigration via the birth canal

By JOHN REINIERS

Special to Hernando Today

About every six months the population of the U.S. increases about as much as the population of Tallahassee. Who are these hundreds of thousands of new citizens? They are newborns, children of illegal aliens born in the United States  birthright citizens, "anchor babies"  not illegal aliens.

This quirky legal right then allows the mother's parents and siblings to remain, and later a whole bunch of their relatives to immigrate legally. ( see chain immigration at Numbersusa.com - This why they are also known as "Jackpot babies"

Just consider Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas, the second busiest maternity ward in the U.S. In 2006, 70 percent of the women giving birth in Parkland were illegal immigrants. That added up to 11,200 babies for which Medicaid kicked in $34.5 million to deliver these babies, the feds another $9.5 million and Dallas taxpayers tossed in $31.3 million.

The average illegal patient is 25 years old and giving birth to her second anchor baby. We could also talk about California, but you get the point. By law, illegal immigrants cannot be denied medical care based on their inability to pay or their immigration status. These women also receive free prenatal care, medication, car seats, bottles, diapers and formula.

The U.S. and a few other countries offer citizenship to anyone born on their soil. The United Kingdom and Australia abandoned this practice in the 1980's after being abused by immigrants for many years.

Why do we allow this to continue? The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the states wherein they reside".

It was added to our Constitution right after the Civil War as part of a package of reforms to prevent any more injustices to African Americans, such as states denying citizenship to native born Blacks. The drafters of the "Citizenship clause" made it clear from their debate, that the clause "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" meant that the status of the parents of a child born within the territory of the U.S. determines whether of not that child is eligible for U.S. citizenship.

There have been surprisingly few Supreme Court opinions construing this clause, the results being a mixed bag of decisions. The lawyer in me wants to go into detail, but let me be mercifully brief:  The latest case involved a terrorist who happened to be born in Louisiana, when his father, a native of Mecca, Saudi Arabia was working as an engineer for Exxon. He returned to Saudi Arabia as an infant, took up with al Qaeda as an adult, was captured during a battle in Afghanistan and wound up imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay.

The Supreme Court held that this Saudi, being Louisiana born, had a Due Process right as a citizen to challenge his detention as an enemy combatant. This ruling simply does not comport with any of the text or history surrounding the adoption of the Citizenship Clause. Just being born in the U.S. doesn't cut it, because such an interpretation renders the "subject to the jurisdiction" clause entirely redundant. It is a well settled doctrine of legal interpretation that legal texts  most certainly the Constitution are not to be interpreted to make some words altogether redundant.

In other words why didn't the drafters just say, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States "are citizens of the United States" (Imagine two terrorists, man and wife jihadis slipping past border guards into a U.S. city to set up a terrorist cell. The wife then gives birth to a child. Should this budding young terrorist be an instant American citizen?)

Help could be on the way, but don't hold your breath. In 2007 Representative Nathan Deal, R-Ga., introduced H.R. 1940, The Birthright Citizenship Act of 2007, which would end automatic citizenship to babies born in the U.S. to illegal aliens. For those Americans who look to Europe "the cradle of our American civilization" for guidance, Ireland, in 2004 voted to end automatic citizenship.

That was the last member of the European Union to allow pregnant foreigners to gain residence and welfare benefits as a result of just being born there. The political fallout of this bill could be enormous. Take California. Republican Governor Pete Wilson supported Proposition 187 in 1994 which was designed to deny illegal immigrants social services, such as welfare etc.

Latinos marched in protest; the issue wound up in the courts, was appealed, and Wilson?s successor, a Democrat, abandoned the appeal. So it never became law. The media, social liberals and national Latino groups attacked Wilson, a highly successful governor, who got more votes than Ronald Reagan. Well, that was the end of the Republican Party in California. And in 2008 California is even more Latino. (Just consider the multiplier effect of anchor babies.)

California Democrats still make snide remarks about Wilson's insensitivity towards Latinos. Interestingly, Hillary Clinton is courting Latinos in Nevada, just next door even though they are in minority, but a growing slice of the voters in order to influence California Latinos, the big enchilada.

It is estimated that about 1/3rd of California is already Latino, and they should be a majority by 2042.
So the larger issue for the Dems is, if they get behind H.R.1940, it could hurt them in California. But as of this writing, Latinos and Californication has not yet overwhelmed the entire U.S., which they want to win in 2008.

Patriotism is when the love of your own people comes first. Politics, for Democrats, is thinking of the next election, and not what is best the next generation of Americans. With that in mind, illegal aliens and their progeny will continue to be one more group on the list of Democrat constituencies.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Michael Tee

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2010, 11:14:58 PM »
<<Does Canada grant citizenship the same way? Mexico? France? Sweden?>>

Canada for sure does, and I believe the others do as well, but I don't know for sure.

Michael Tee

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2010, 11:21:01 PM »
<<If the change in the amendment would not affect Irish and Eastern European descendants the same way it would affect Hispanics you might have a point, but as far as i can see it would, so you cries of racism reflect more your preference for false demagaoguery than truth.>>

If the bulk of illegal immigrants were from Ireland and Eastern Europe, your argument might have a shred of plausibility, but they aren't and it doesn't, and I don't have a preference for false demagoguery, which I leave in the capable hands of the "Islamo-Nazi-Fascist-Let's-Bomb-Iran" DEBKRAP devotees.

Christians4LessGvt

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"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BT

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2010, 11:35:02 PM »
Quote
If the bulk of illegal immigrants were from Ireland and Eastern Europe, your argument might have a shred of plausibility, but they aren't and it doesn't,

Discrimination is not measured by volume. If you discriminate against one Irishman, one Eastern European, if you treat that one person differently based on race, creed or nation of origin, then the law you base your action upon racist.

What you appear to be saying is that if a person is Hispanic they are not subject to the laws of the land. And that is discriminatory.



Michael Tee

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2010, 11:40:38 PM »
<<Discrimination is not measured by volume. If you discriminate against one Irishman, one Eastern European, if you treat that one person differently based on race, creed or nation of origin, then the law you base your action upon racist.

<<What you appear to be saying is that if a person is Hispanic they are not subject to the laws of the land. And that is discriminatory.>>

LMFAO.  Nice try.  Seriously, good effort.  Maybe discrimination isn't measured by volume, but politics sure as hell are.  The Tea Party couldn't care less about an illegal Irishman here or an illegal Polack there.  They're going apeshit over Mexicans and other Latinos coming over the Mexican border and they want to put a stop to it.  How many Tea Party vigilantes you see in New York or Boston harbours trying to catch Irish illegals?


BT

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2010, 11:44:39 PM »
Quote
The Tea Party couldn't care less about an illegal Irishman here or an illegal Polack there.

Do you have evidence of this?

Universe Prince

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2010, 11:54:45 PM »

Subtract the egregious fear use,


Unfortunately, that isn't up to me.


You can say legal immigrants are welcome all you like, but so long as legal immigration is made expensive and difficult (unless one is famous like David Beckham) and the intent is to tightly control borders, it's not a legal vs. illegal issue.

Since there are millions who have and do go thru the process, it's PRECISELY the issue


AMBE. There are millions who want to come to this country to work, and the policy you support would keep the vast majority of them out because they are poor and/or "unskilled". And a great many of those people who do manage to make it through the process still have to wait years if not decades. And those are the ones who can afford not only the immigration fees but the legal fees necessary for navigating the labyrinthine red tape. That makes it an immigration issue, not a legal vs. illegal issue.

Notably, nothing you said refutes my previous post to you. So the fact that you ignored the bulk of it seems telling.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Plane

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2010, 11:58:37 PM »
  Maybe discrimination isn't measured by volume, but politics sure as hell are. 



Isn't this you admitting to the validity of BT's point?


I am trying to remember how I became a citizen......


....Can't do it , I was pretty young when I was born, and I couldn't have been a citizen any more than nine months at the time.

How many of us became citizens by being conceived here? I like that standard better , even though it might be rather hard to provide proof.

I suppose that there has to be a starting point for everyones citizenship , when is a better place to start than birth?

Shouldn't we be gratefull at this gift of youth? Won't we need these guys to be here during their productive years?

Is'nt it a little bit amazeing that so many Mexicans , Central and South Americans, Chineese and Irish , Poles and Etheopians really think that haveing an american citizenship is a good thing for their children?


I see a potential for a win- win solution.

Plane

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2010, 12:02:40 AM »
AMBE. There are millions who want to come to this country to work, and the policy you support would keep the vast majority of them out because they are poor and/or "unskilled". And a great many of those people who do manage to make it through the process still have to wait years if not decades. .


Why are they better off here?

These are great people , if they had to stay home would they not be usefull and influential in the improvement of their homeland?

sirs

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2010, 12:29:51 AM »
<<Discrimination is not measured by volume. If you discriminate against one Irishman, one Eastern European, if you treat that one person differently based on race, creed or nation of origin, then the law you base your action upon racist.

<<What you appear to be saying is that if a person is Hispanic they are not subject to the laws of the land. And that is discriminatory.>>


LMFAO.  Nice try.  Seriously, good effort.  Maybe discrimination isn't measured by volume, but politics sure as hell are.  The Tea Party couldn't care less about an illegal Irishman here or an illegal Polack there.

Bzzzzzz......wrong.  Care to try again?  OR, care to DEBATE the issue, and provide examples of this "could care less about illegal Irishmen"??


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2010, 12:38:34 AM »
Subtract the egregious fear use,

Unfortunately, that isn't up to me.

That's too bad, since it's never been a fear issue.  That's been made up by some, who apparently are trying to remain anonyprince


You can say legal immigrants are welcome all you like, but so long as legal immigration is made expensive and difficult (unless one is famous like David Beckham) and the intent is to tightly control borders, it's not a legal vs. illegal issue.

Since there are millions who have and do go thru the process, it's PRECISELY the issue

AMBE.


No, REALITY


There are millions who want to come to this country to work, and the policy you support would keep the vast majority of them out because they are poor and/or "unskilled". 

Go to the end of the line, pay your dues just like every other current American Immigrant, and Welcome to the U.S.A.  And guess what, MILLIONS have done just that.  If we want to talk about lessening some of the rules, shortening some of the time, I'm open to that, just so long as its applied to anyone wanting to enter this country, LEGALLY.....which ironically keeps reinforcing the point that this is indeed a LEGAL vs ILLEGAL immigrant issue


Notably, nothing you said refutes my previous post to you. So the fact that you ignored the bulk of it seems telling.

Precisely because you're deftly trying to make this about something it isn't.  THAT's what's telling
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Universe Prince

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2010, 12:55:02 AM »

Why are they better off here?

These are great people , if they had to stay home would they not be usefull and influential in the improvement of their homeland?


One could ask the same of the skilled folks, the athletes and scientists that we say are perfectly okay to come to this country and often try to recruit.

Why is anyone better off somewhere? Why do people move from one state to another for work within the U.S.? Why do some people move to the big city? Why do some people move to the suburbs? Why do some people move to the coast? Why does anyone leave where they are for somewhere else?

Does it matter if immigrants are better off here by some measurable, objective standard? They believe they are better off here. What's wrong with that?

If the person who wants to be an actor stayed home in Wyoming rather than moving to New York or California, would he not be able to be useful and/or influential in the improvement of Wyoming? If the young architect in Louisiana had to stay home rather than move to Chicago or Seattle or Albuquerque, would he not be able to be useful and/or influential in the improvement of Louisiana? The point isn't what might a person do if he was unable to move somewhere else. The point is, why should he be prevented from going somewhere else?

And many people who want to come here to work want also to go back home. Many are not looking to come here to stay forever. Many who have remained only do so because immigration law makes leaving and coming back if desired is more difficult than simply staying.

So I would say your questions, Plane, are largely irrelevant.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

BT

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2010, 12:59:52 AM »
Quote
The point isn't what might a person do if he was unable to move somewhere else. The point is, why should he be prevented from going somewhere else?

They aren't. They simply need to properly fill out the required paperwork.


Plane

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Re: Republicans want review of birthright citizenship
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2010, 01:06:58 AM »
Quote
If the person who wants to be an actor stayed home in Wyoming rather than moving to New York or California, would he not be able to be useful and/or influential in the improvement of Wyoming? If the young architect in Louisiana had to stay home rather than move to Chicago or Seattle or Albuquerque, would he not be able to be useful and/or influential in the improvement of Louisiana? The point isn't what might a person do if he was unable to move somewhere else. The point is, why should he be prevented from going somewhere else?

Interstate travel without visa is an important part of American citizenship.

So the most practical solution must be to expand our southern border to Terra Del Fuego and our northern border to Hudson's bay.

If everyone from every state on the hemisphere should have the practical benefit of citizenship why not sew a dozen more stars on our flag?

Then all of us would have the right to move anywhere on the half planet we wished and work under one law.

Why accept this as a one way street? Why accept the demand of a Venezuelan border guard for a passport?That is just unfair, we should hve the right to wander all the world as all the world has the right to wander our territory.

Adopting and assimilateing every contiguous state on the Hemisphere seems to be the only fair way to accomplish the real fairness for all of us .