Lesbo Confirmed to SC

[BT]

Except that Stalin had far more blood on his hands than 6 million Jews.

Fact is Hitler brought Germany from the brink of starvation to a military industrial complex that took the blood and treasure of England, the US and the Soviet Union to crush.

It's funny that you accuse Hitler of subjecting the non-Aryans to servitude. What do you think Stalin did to the Eastern European countries after the war.

The biggest difference i can see between Stalin and Hitler was that Stalin was on the winning side. If you look at it objectively both had their countries best interest at heart even if you disagree with who they thought their internal enemies were.

 

[Michael Tee]

<<Except that Stalin had far more blood on his hands than 6 million Jews.>>

Bullslhit.

<<Fact is Hitler brought Germany from the brink of starvation to a military industrial complex that took the blood and treasure of England, the US and the Soviet Union to crush.>>

End result - - they crushed him flatter than anyone's ever been crushed before.

<<It's funny that you accuse Hitler of subjecting the non-Aryans to servitude. >>

Bullshit again.  I accuse him of deliberate, industrialized murder of six million men, women and children on purely racist grounds. 

<<What do you think Stalin did to the Easter European countries after the war.>>

Mostly, he paid them back for joining Hitler in his attack on the Soviet Union.  Too bad he didn't kill as many of them as they killed of the Russians.

<<The biggest difference i can see between Stalin and Hitler was that Stalin was on the winning side.>>

Why am I not surprised?  You don't see what you don't want to see, no matter how many times it's pointed out to you over and over again in this very thread.

<< If you look at it objectively both had their countries best interest at heart even if you disagree with who they thought their internal enemies were.>>

Let's assume that's true.  How the fuck are you going to square the deliberate extermination of six million human beings and the attempt to find and kill all the rest of them with sending an unknown number of homosexuals to a gulag for five years?  What the hell is wrong with you?

[sirs]

<<The biggest difference i can see between Stalin and Hitler was that Stalin was on the winning side.>>

Why am I not surprised?  You don't see what you don't want to see, no matter how many times it's pointed out to you over and over again in this very thread.

wow......sound the irony alarm

[BT]

How the fuck are you going to square the deliberate extermination of six million human beings and the attempt to find and kill all the rest of them with sending an unknown number of homosexuals to a gulag for five years?

As if that was Stalin's only sin.

[Michael Tee]

<<As if that was Stalin's only sin.>>

As if all of them together came anywhere near Hitler's.

How the hell can you even compare a man whose idea of bettering all of humanity may involve the liquidation of some class enemies and fascists, who pose a real threat to the people of the world, with a man whose idea of bettering the world is confined to the betterment of one race only (his own,) the extermination of an entire race of people and the subjugation of everyone else? 

 

[BT]

So one dead man is worth more than another?

How about both men killed people who didn't need to be killed for the sole purpose of consolidating power and focusing the peoples attention on "others"

[Michael Tee]

<<So one dead man is worth more than another?>>

That's not what I said.  (When is it ever?)   You're confusing two issues, the morality of the intention behind the action and the action itself. 

<<How about both men killed people who didn't need to be killed for the sole purpose of consolidating power and focusing the peoples attention on "others">>

Both men killed people who didn't need to be killed, sure, but then (a) the sole purpose was NOT consolidating power and focusing the people's attention on "others," that's just your own fabricated (and ludicrous) view of the purpose, and (b) it was not one-for-one, but millions killed by Hitler for the supremacy of the Aryan race, versus some infinitely lesser number executed by Stalin for purposes relating to the end of the exploitation of man by man and the defence of the workers' and peasants' Revolution. 

So that as far as I am concerned, Hitler comes out much the worse (a) for the cause in which he killed, (b) in the number of his victims and (c) in the extent to which his victims were deserving of their fate.    Hitler's victims did nothing to deserve their fate other than to be born to Jewish or Slavic parents, Stalin's were for the most part by their own actions, enemies of the people, but perhaps some were mistakenly executed as such, in which case Stalin's moral culpability is about on a par with a judge who convicts and sentences based on a trial that later turns out to have been (unknown to the judge) a travesty of justice.

I dunno, this stuff is pretty basic.  Most people I know understand this stuff without any laborious discussion.  The Cold War propaganda of the misdeeds of Stalin is a fucking joke (on the whole) and in any event, his entire focus was on wrongdoers and enemies of the people.  Even the homosexuals that may have been persecuted were singled out for mistaken fascist leanings, not merely for who they were.  As someone pointed out in this thread, Nazi Germany was probably the most homoerotic society of its day, and it was therefore natural for Russian thinkers to concoct a link between homosexuality and fascism, erroneous as that conclusion turned out to be in the fullness of time.

[Amianthus]

[Stalin's] entire focus was on wrongdoers and enemies of the people.

That is also what Hitler claimed regarding the Jews.

[Michael Tee]

<<That is also what Hitler claimed [that they were wrongdoers and enemies of the people] regarding the Jews.>>

Of course that's what he claimed but who gives a shit what he claimed if the claim was so preposterous on its face (how the fuck can a three-year-old child be an enemy of the people?) that it's absurd?  Besides, there's a moral relativism here that is absolutely appalling.  Stalin's claims were mostly accurate - - the class war is real, there are real enemies of the people, and there are were really fascists, counter-revolutionaries, Nazi agents, Trotskyites and others who posed real threats to the Revolution and needed to be dealt with.  The Jewish conspiracy to enslave the world was some kind of ludicrous falsehood, pure bullshit that couldn't have justified one single execution, let alone the cold-blooded slaughter of six million.  You're equating the actions of a pure bullshit artist with the actions of a Revolutionary defending the Revolution against real enemies, albeit on occasion imperfectly.

[BT]

albeit on occasion imperfectly.

I'm sure his victims take solace in that.

[Michael Tee]

<<I'm sure his victims take solace in that. >>

What do you think Bush's victims take solace in?  Or LBJ's?

Your solicitude for the "victims" of Stalin is really touching.  You must be a real (LMFAO) humanitarian.   What size Band-Aids do you use for your bleeding heart?  Inquiring minds need to know.

[BT]

What do you think Bush's victims take solace in?  Or LBJ's?

Both are pikers compared to Stalin.

[Michael Tee]

<<Both are pikers compared to Stalin. >>

Pikers, my ass.  All their victims were innocent. 

Most of Stalin's victims had it coming.

[BT]

<<Both are pikers compared to Stalin. >>

Pikers, my ass.  All their victims were innocent. 

Most of Stalin's victims had it coming.

Priceless.

[Plane]

Missed points.

Hitler is responsible for many more than six million deaths , six million is just the number of Jews.

Stalin still may have a greater number of victims , depending on who is doing the counting .

Stalin made an allience with Chirchill and FDR eagerly , AFTER his allience with Hitler fell apart.

Since he chose to sign on with Hitler first , can we not assume that he was more in sympathy with Hitler than with Chirchill?

That Hitler turned two faced on Stalin is not amazeing in hindsight , Hitler had allience with homosexuals early on and turned on them when he could do so for advantage.

Stalin does not bear close examination by an admirer, merely a thug , not all that smart, he is guilty of many deaths because of the scale of the organisation he took over. If Stalin and Pol Pot were exchanged the diffrence in result would be negligable.