Author Topic: Obama throws Israel under the Bus  (Read 70322 times)

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sirs

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2011, 03:03:54 PM »
No it doesn't.  It MUST start with some firm grasp of what will happen to ANY Arab neighbor that sets one foot or launches 1 rocket into Israel, before Israel could even possibly consider splitting their nation into 2 largely indefensible regions.

Going back to indefensible 67borders with a mere "promise to try and be peaceful", is a non starter.  Simple as that
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2011, 03:34:56 PM »
Quote
The '67 boarders plus land swaps is where everyone knows it has to end up.

I agree as far as the Palestinians go. I doubt the Golan Heights will be part of the discussion as that deals with Syria.

Wouldn't it be ironic to see Palestinian bulldozers knocking down some Israeli settlement houses in the disputed territories.



Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2011, 04:16:35 PM »
To say that the 1967 borders are indefensible is demonstrably inaccurate, since they have been defended successfully in several wars. There are no natural barriers in Israel now,and historically the ancient nations of Israel and Judea were constantly being overrun by damn near everyone: Egyptians, Assyrians, Lebanese, Babylonians, Philistines, Persians and Medes.

Israel is on the wrong continent to be truly defensible. What they really need is an island somewhere. Perhaps the Falklands, after they buy off the claims of the UK, Argentina and all those sheep. Or perhaps the Chinese would sell then Hainan. They were too late for Australia, Western Australia would have been perfect, except for the kangaroos not being kosher.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2011, 04:26:46 PM »
To say that the 1967 borders are indefensible is demonstrably inaccurate, since they have been defended successfully in several wars....

and AFTER 67, when they were taken to better DEFEND Israel.  Somoene who not only has problems with the English language, but with the realities of war and defensive positions, taken as a result of war.  9 miles is so ridiculous, without provisions, WITH TEETH, that make it clear what the repercussions will be, if any further attacks are launched from either the West Bank or Golan Heights, if such lands are returned to messers Jordan and/or Syria, for Palestinian development.  And not just repercussions produced by Israel, but by the international community

Did anyone catch that?.....sirs is proclaiming that Israel CAN go back to pre-67 borders, with a big IF....  Now, who's with me on the IF?  Bt?.....BsB?......Xo?

 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #49 on: May 21, 2011, 04:46:26 PM »
You are harping on this 9 mile wide thing like perhaps Israel truly was the aggressor in the 67 war. They seemed happy with the nine miles beforehand.


BSB

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #50 on: May 21, 2011, 05:01:25 PM »
There are two things which aren't up for debate, sirs, and everyone knows it whether they openly admit it or not. One: Whoever represents the Palestinians has to recognize Israel's right to exist. Two: A Palestinian state will be drawn on the pre '67 borders plus land swaps. As for the Golan Heights, as BT said, that's between Israel and Syria.
 
However, it's all theoretical at the moment because there ain't going to be any real negotiations. It's sorta like Newt Gingrich's presidential campaign. It's a figment of the imagination.


BSB

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #51 on: May 21, 2011, 05:25:34 PM »
The 9 mile wide thing is part of a speech that Jews get when they come to Israel. Dividing Israel in half does not seem to have been a plan by any of Israel's enemies in any of their wars. After the 9-mile wide speech, then they go to Massadah and discuss the words "suicide", followed by a visit to a Holocaust site, where they get the "never again" speech.Then, after three hits of guilt,  the hat is passed. The less bellicose are invited to plant trees with their donations. Some trees are planted a dozen times or more. Israel spends money as it sees fit, and donors rarely complain.


Israel is far more defensible than Egypt. Egypt's fate depends on one medium sized bomb blowing up the Aswan Dam. Turkey has the Bosporus, and so forth and so on.

If the Palestinians do not try to invade, then the entire point is moot. The silly Hamas rockets are basically dangerous toys, and most weekends there are more traffic fatalities than all those who have been harmed by them. Netanyahu's goal is to appear willing to talk seriously, but to delay and sabotage every session with some outrage that drives the Palestinians away. As this process continues, Israel continues to build and enlarge settlements in the West Bank.

I simply resent being taxed to pay for this nonsense. There needs to be a peaceful agreement to a two-state country, because these people cannot stand one another.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #52 on: May 21, 2011, 06:07:29 PM »
You are harping on this 9 mile wide thing like perhaps Israel truly was the aggressor in the 67 war. They seemed happy with the nine miles beforehand.

Yea, BEFORE THEY WERE ATTACKED....Before the surrounding Arab nations attempted to remove Israel from their location.  THAT'S WHY THEY HAVE THEM NOW....AS A DEFENSIVE POSITION.  They weren't "stolen"


There are two things which aren't up for debate, sirs, and everyone knows it whether they openly admit it or not. One: Whoever represents the Palestinians has to recognize Israel's right to exist. Two: A Palestinian state will be drawn on the pre '67 borders plus land swaps.

Actually, there are 3 things, 1 of which is the IF, I'm referring to.  Now, are any of you 3 ready to put some substance to your rhetoric and address that, or is this all just alot of blather, that will not go anywhere, and peace is simply a pipedream??


Sirs

 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2011, 07:38:15 PM »
You are harping on this 9 mile wide thing like perhaps Israel truly was the aggressor in the 67 war. They seemed happy with the nine miles beforehand.

Yea, BEFORE THEY WERE ATTACKED....Before the surrounding Arab nations attempted to remove Israel from their location.  THAT'S WHY THEY HAVE THEM NOW....AS A DEFENSIVE POSITION.  They weren't "stolen"




There are two things which aren't up for debate, sirs, and everyone knows it whether they openly admit it or not. One: Whoever represents the Palestinians has to recognize Israel's right to exist. Two: A Palestinian state will be drawn on the pre '67 borders plus land swaps.

Actually, there are 3 things, 1 of which is the IF, I'm referring to.  Now, are any of you 3 ready to put some substance to your rhetoric and address that, or is this all just alot of blather, that will not go anywhere, and peace is simply a pipedream??


Sirs

Here is a history of Israel in maps. Perhaps it will prove to be enlightening.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+About+Israel/Israel+in+Maps/

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #54 on: May 21, 2011, 07:49:13 PM »
SIRS.....watch this to better understand how Obozo is attempting to destroy Israel.

Israel's Critical Security Needs for a Viable Peace
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #55 on: May 21, 2011, 07:55:22 PM »
You are harping on this 9 mile wide thing like perhaps Israel truly was the aggressor in the 67 war. They seemed happy with the nine miles beforehand.

Yea, BEFORE THEY WERE ATTACKED....Before the surrounding Arab nations attempted to remove Israel from their location.  THAT'S WHY THEY HAVE THEM NOW....AS A DEFENSIVE POSITION.  They weren't "stolen"


There are two things which aren't up for debate, sirs, and everyone knows it whether they openly admit it or not. One: Whoever represents the Palestinians has to recognize Israel's right to exist. Two: A Palestinian state will be drawn on the pre '67 borders plus land swaps.

Actually, there are 3 things, 1 of which is the IF, I'm referring to.  Now, are any of you 3 ready to put some substance to your rhetoric and address that, or is this all just alot of blather, that will not go anywhere, and peace is simply a pipedream??


Sirs

Here is a history of Israel in maps. Perhaps it will prove to be enlightening.

Perhaps, you'll address the point being made.  Still waiting for you to address the IF part.  Can I expect a serious response to that, or no?

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #56 on: May 21, 2011, 07:57:13 PM »
SIRS.....watch this to better understand how Obozo is attempting to destroy Israel.

Israel's Critical Security Needs for a Viable Peace

Enlightening, isn't it.  Just as much as messers Bt, BsB, and Xo are at not dealing with the gorilla in the room.  There will be no pre-67 borders without addressing the IF, I've been referring to.  Simple as that
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2011, 08:17:46 PM »
Israel should never give an inch.
The IslamoNazis will never say "oh ok now we can be peaceful with you".
I am afraid if Obozo tries to force Israel into a dangerous position.
Before accepting their fate, Israel would nuke Iran to set an example.
So in effect Obozo would be forcing Israel into striking first.
Of course I wish they'do both....dont give an inch to those that want to destroy you anyway & nuke Iran.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #58 on: May 21, 2011, 08:19:13 PM »
(WASHINGTON) - Congressman Allen West (FL-22) released this statement today:

"Today's endorsement by President Barack Obama of the creation of a Hamas-led Palestinian state based on the pre-1967 borders, signals the most egregious foreign policy decision his administration has made to date, and could be the beginning of the end as we know it for the Jewish state.

From the moment the modern day state of Israel declared statehood in 1948, to the end of the 1967 Six Day War, Jews were forbidden access to their holiest site, the Western Wall in Jerusalem?s Old City, controlled by Jordan's Arab army.

The pre-1967 borders endorsed by President Obama would deny millions of the world's Jews access to their holiest site and force Israel to return the strategically important Golan Heights to Syria, a known state-sponsor of terrorism.

Resorting to the pre-1967 borders would mean a full withdrawal by the Israelis from the West Bank and the Jewish neighborhoods of East Jerusalem.  Make no mistake, there has always been a Nation of Israel and Jerusalem has been and must always be recognized as its rightful capital.

In short, the Hamas-run Palestinian state envisioned by President Obama would be devastating to Israel and the world's 13.3 million Jews. It would be a Pavlovian style reward to a declared Islamic terrorist organization, and an unacceptable policy initiative.

America should never negotiate with the Palestinian Authority- which has aligned itself with Hamas. Palestine is a region, not a people or a modern state. Based upon Roman Emperor Hadrian's declaration in 73 AD, the original Palestinian people are the Jewish people.

It's time for the American people to stand by our strongest ally, the Jewish State of Israel, and reject this foreign policy blunder of epic proportions.

While the winds of democracy may blow strong in the Middle East, history has demonstrated that gaps in leadership can lead to despotic regimes.  I have questions for President Obama:  "Who will now lead in Egypt"? and "Why should American taxpayers provide foreign aid to a nation where the next chapter in their history may be the emergence of another radical Islamic state"?

President Obama has not stood for Israel or the Jewish people and has made it clear where the United States will stand when Palestine attempts to gain recognition of  statehood by the United Nations.  The President should  focus on the real obstacle to security- the Palestinian leadership and its ultimate goal to eliminate Israel and the Jewish people.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BT

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #59 on: May 21, 2011, 09:22:57 PM »
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Perhaps, you'll address the point being made.  Still waiting for you to address the IF part.  Can I expect a serious response to that, or no?

I have addressed that point for years. I am on record saying that if a two state peace is achieved any violation of said peace will result in a full nuclear attack by both the US and the Russians on all parties involved.