Obama throws Israel under the Bus

[BSB]

Upon further review.

Apparently Israel does indeed relinquish the Golan Heights as part of a return to the '67 borders and the formation of a Palestinian State.

On the IF factor: A) The Israeli Army, if they're as tough as they claim to be, doesn't need to fight from the high ground, aka the Golan Heights. B) Judaism should adopt the Buddhist understanding of impermanence. As in, we all are impermanent so don't get overly attached to life. 

Henny, maybe you could weigh in on this?

BSB

[Plane]

Here is a history of Israel in maps. Perhaps it will prove to be enlightening.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+About+Israel/Israel+in+Maps/

Pretty good , what borders has Isreal ever had that were not merely the ceasefire lines of the previous war or lines placed on a map by persons in power centers thousancs of miles away?

There is nothing special about the lines as they were in 67 as far as I can tell, those lines didn't cause a peacefull situation when they were current and lines earlyer than that were equally failures at produceing satisfaction whether they were more or less generous.

I think moving these lines will be disruptive , but not productive, no matter where these lines land the underlyeing problems remain, no place the lines could be drawn do much about that.

[sirs]

Perhaps, you'll address the point being made.  Still waiting for you to address the IF part.  Can I expect a serious response to that, or no?

I have addressed that point for years. I am on record saying that if a two state peace is achieved any violation of said peace will result in a full nuclear attack by both the US and the Russians on all parties involved.

Strange how I've never actually heard that before, in any of the years you may be referencing.  Perhaps it simply got missed.  You seriously advocating nuclear Armageddon?  Please, what are these conditions of violation that warrants this response??  That sure is far more than I'd ever advocate.  "All" parties, hmmmm.  So, Hezbollah, backed by Syria & Iran equipment, launch hundreds of rockets into the New Israel, and we........take out Lebanon with some nukes??  Just trying to find some serious clarity here

Upon further review.  Apparently Israel does indeed relinquish the Golan Heights as part of a return to the '67 borders and the formation of a Palestinian State.

WHAT's this you say?  Can't be.  I mean sirs said it, so it just can't be   

On the IF factor: A) The Israeli Army, if they're as tough as they claim to be, doesn't need to fight from the high ground, aka the Golan Heights. B) Judaism should adopt the Buddhist understanding of impermanence. As in, we all are impermanent so don't get overly attached to life. 

Ummmm.....thanks for the non-answer.  Keep working on that pipedream I suppose

[Religious Dick]

Government Official Who Makes Perfectly Valid, Well-Reasoned Point Against Israel Forced To Resign
MAY 20, 2011 | ISSUE 47?20

WASHINGTON?State Department diplomat Nelson Milstrand, who appeared on CNN last week and offered an informed, thoughtful analysis implying that Israel could perhaps exercise more restraint toward Palestinian moderates in disputed territories, was asked to resign Tuesday. ?The United States deeply regrets any harm Mr. Milstrand?s careful, even-tempered, and factually accurate remarks may have caused our democratic partner in the Middle East,? Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said in an unequivocal condemnation of the veteran foreign-service officer?s perfectly reasonable statements. ?U.S. policy toward Israel continues to be one of unconditional support and fawning sycophancy.? Milstrand, 63, will reportedly appear at an AIPAC conference to offer a full apology as soon as his trial concludes and his divorce is finalized.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/government-official-who-makes-perfectly-valid-well,20499/

[BSB]

plane: "underlying problems"

The underlying problem being that because of the suffering and pain the Jews went through, they were given land that didn't belong to them, causing pain and suffering to others?

We should move Israel to southwest Texas, they can build a big wall along the border with Mexico, fight the drug cartels, and feel right at home.  That way we solve part of the illegal human trafficking that goes on along our border, the Texas Christians can have the rapture, or whatever they think is going to happen, right in their own state, and the Palestinian can have Jerusalem all to themselves.


BSB

[BSB]

sirs: "sirs said it"

I was correcting what I said. I pay no attention to what you say.

BSB

[Christians4LessGvt]

As SIRS so artfully posted...one of these guys is trying "to throw Israel under the Bus"

Go figure which one...... 



BiBi Netanyahu and Barry Soetoro in their early twenties
 

[Plane]

plane: "underlying problems"

The underlying problem being that because of the suffering and pain the Jews went through, they were given land that didn't belong to them, causing pain and suffering to others?

We should move Israel to southwest Texas, they can build a big wall along the border with Mexico, fight the drug cartels, and feel right at home.  That way we solve part of the illegal human trafficking that goes on along our border, the Texas Christians can have the rapture, or whatever they think is going to happen, right in their own state, and the Palestinian can have Jerusalem all to themselves.


BSB

There are a lot of underling problems , but what sort of them , what subset of them , would moving the border correct?

For a lot of reasons ,which are so rooted in the past that they are inaccessible to change, two sets of people claim rights on the same spot .

If some other spot would do just as well, the problem would be simple, but a lot of them would rather die.

If one set agreed to convert into the other set (they can) or both sets converted en mass to a third type , the problem would be solved, but a lot of them would rather die than convert.

If both of these sets of people simultaneously decided that they trusted and respected the other , solving the problems would become trivial, but they have died in the attempt too often for this to be easily done.

I have thought of solutions which might work, but in all humility none of them are so good that I am sure that they would work , and none of them absolutely avoid bloodshed either.

[sirs]

sirs: "sirs said it"

I was correcting what I said. I pay no attention to what you say.

BSB

At your own peril........case in point

Sirs

[Xavier_Onassis]

The Golan is not and never has been a part of Palestine. The Palestinians do not claim it. The Israelis acknowledge that it was taken from Syria, and claim they get to keep it because it gives Syria an advantage over Israel.

God has never identified the Golan as part of Israel, either.Of course, it was not as great a danger when fighting was done with chariots and spears.

[BT]

Strange how I've never actually heard that before, in any of the years you may be referencing.  Perhaps it simply got missed.  You seriously advocating nuclear Armageddon?

http://debategate.com/new3dhs/3dhs/the-dubai-killing-floored-iran/msg96081/#msg96081

[sirs]

ok, one little reference, that could easily have been taken as tongue and cheek, does not a position make.

So, let's get back the the direct questions posed, if you don't mind:

You seriously advocating nuclear Armageddon? 

Please, what are these conditions of violation that  would warrant this response?? 

So, if Hezbollah, backed by Syria & Iran equipment, launch hundreds of rockets into the New Israel, from their new positions in the Golan Heights, we........take out Lebanon with some nukes??  

[Xavier_Onassis]

Armageddon is presumably unavoidable. It is predicted in the Holy Writ. To a believer, it cannot be avoided.

However, it is described as two armies coming together on a battlefield. This is not a nuclear confrontation, as there would be no survivors it it were. Two armies of dead and dying corpses that glow in the dark would make a good adventure flick, but they would not satisfy the predictions of the Book of Revelation.

The fact is that the technology of all possible armies has outpaced the prophesies. You might as well describe legions of men mounted on pterodactyls, or hordes of orcs. What is described in Revelation is just the stuff of fantasy.

The Fundies want all the Jews to move to Israel (how likely is that?) where the "good" ones will be converted and the rest sent off to Satan. And the Israelis use this sophomoric belief to their own advantage, as it gets then aid and support.

[BT]

ok, one little reference, that could easily have been taken as tongue and cheek, does not a position make.

http://debategate.com/new3dhs/3dhs/iran-could-have-nuclear-bomb-in-three-years/msg23232/#msg23232

[sirs]

STILL WAITING......Debate forurm.......questions posed.......still waiting for responses to those specific questions