Obama throws Israel under the Bus

[Xavier_Onassis]

I imagine that King Abdullah's book would offer quite a bit of insight.

I note that the local library seems to have it, and will check it out.

Thanks, Henny.

[sirs]

Agreed, on the 1 sided insight.  Ball still in Palestinians' court

[Henny]

It's ok Miss Henny....I've been shown the light....there will be no peace, I'm afraid.       However I'll keep you and your family in my prayers for protection, always

You know, there is a chance for peace.

It's been presented that its just not possible outside of a non-viable 3rd party nuclear deterrent.  And since that'll never, nor should it, be plausible, I'm afraid there will be no functional peace.  Israel has the green light to do whatever they need to, I'm afraid     

Sirs, with all due respect, stop repeating the party line and please read the book. Get both sides of the story.

[sirs]

With all due respect Miss Henny, it's not a party line......no more than the supposed calls of Jewish propoganda & ethnic clensing at the hands of Israel.  I've got a pretty good grasp of the current situation, including the dire straits the Palestinians find themselves in, and the fodder they've become at the hands of EVERYONE, not just Israel.  You even conceded the King's book was one sided.  Getting more of the 1 side isn't going to change the current state of what is

If I do find some extra time, I'll endeavor to check out more of that 1 side....for you.  But unfortunately, regardless of what & when I can get some reading time in, there will be no peace.  Bt has now convinced me of that............somewhat supported with your having missed answering a very serious question, I posed directly to you, as a necessary starting point.  No one seemed to be able to answer that one.  In particular, should, at the very least, not the Palestinian leader stand before his people and say he is willing to accept an Israeli state, just as Netanyahu is saying he can accept a Palestinian one??

[BSB]

I said several times, sirs, that the Palestinian side must recognize the existence of the state Israel, and stop calling for its demise, as part of any solution. So don't say no one has answered that question.

As for having to try and find reading time? You spend enough time in here in a month to read the entire Tibetan Buddhist Nyingma School cannon. Which is, BTW, around the size of 120 large, hard cover, dictionaries.


BSB

[Xavier_Onassis]

Recognition of Israel for the Palestinians means recognizing that their lands were stolen, and they cannot return to live on them ever again. Recognition of Palestine for Israel means recognizing a puny state whose borders they control totally. It is hardly the same thing.

All we get in the US is Israeli propaganda on every part of the media.

[Henny]

With all due respect Miss Henny, it's not a party line......no more than the supposed calls of Jewish propoganda & ethnic clensing at the hands of Israel.  I've got a pretty good grasp of the current situation, including the dire straits the Palestinians find themselves in, and the fodder they've become at the hands of EVERYONE, not just Israel.  You even conceded the King's book was one sided.  Getting more of the 1 side isn't going to change the current state of what is

No, I promise you, you have not seen the other side like this - especially not in your news. And it adds historical perspective starting with the King's father and all of the peace attempts that have gone in between. It then gradually brings you nearly to present day. It is really, really worth it. For me it was a summary of general knowledge, but incredibly well done.

If I do find some extra time, I'll endeavor to check out more of that 1 side....for you.  But unfortunately, regardless of what & when I can get some reading time in, there will be no peace.  Bt has now convinced me of that............somewhat supported with your having missed answering a very serious question, I posed directly to you, as a necessary starting point.  No one seemed to be able to answer that one.  In particular, should, at the very least, not the Palestinian leader stand before his people and say he is willing to accept an Israeli state, just as Netanyahu is saying he can accept a Palestinian one??

Sorry, I skipped most of this debate deliberately because it made me incredibly angry.

Go back and review the Oslo Accords. The whole thing fell apart before that point was reached. Although technically the whole thing is still sitting on the table, so to speak.

But in short, even if it is not a satisfactory response for you: for the same reason the Native Americans didn't recognize the first American colonies as a state. For the same reason that you wouldn't recognize occupiers of California who threw you out of your home as a state.

While I personally see Israel as a state - they have been there my entire life, hard to go back on that kind of thinking - I don't think the Palestinians should recognize them as sh*t until their needs are recognized.

[BSB]

Recognition of Israel means that terrorist organizations like Hamas have to stop threatening to push it into the ocean. If they can't do that.....fuck 'em. In the same breath, if Israel won't go back to its '67 boarders, fuck them also.

It's a two way street and it has to be grounded in present day reality. Sorry about the past, but that's over and done, now is now.

"If you want to see what your future conditions will be, look at your present actions." Buddha

BSB

[sirs]

With all due respect Miss Henny, it's not a party line......no more than the supposed calls of Jewish propoganda & ethnic clensing at the hands of Israel.  I've got a pretty good grasp of the current situation, including the dire straits the Palestinians find themselves in, and the fodder they've become at the hands of EVERYONE, not just Israel.  You even conceded the King's book was one sided.  Getting more of the 1 side isn't going to change the current state of what is

No, I promise you, you have not seen the other side like this - especially not in your news. And it adds historical perspective starting with the King's father and all of the peace attempts that have gone in between. It then gradually brings you nearly to present day. It is really, really worth it. For me it was a summary of general knowledge, but incredibly well done.

As I said, I have a pretty good grasp of both sides, and the fodder the Palestinians have become at the hands of EVERYONE in the region, Jordan included.   But as said, if I get some time off work, and some free time at home not connected to functions that have to be performed, I'll endeavor to look this book up..  It won't change what is, is, however

If I do find some extra time, I'll endeavor to check out more of that 1 side....for you.  But unfortunately, regardless of what & when I can get some reading time in, there will be no peace.  Bt has now convinced me of that............somewhat supported with your having missed answering a very serious question, I posed directly to you, as a necessary starting point.  No one seemed to be able to answer that one.  In particular, should, at the very least, not the Palestinian leader stand before his people and say he is willing to accept an Israeli state, just as Netanyahu is saying he can accept a Palestinian one??

Sorry, I skipped most of this debate deliberately because it made me incredibly angry.

Go back and review the Oslo Accords. The whole thing fell apart before that point was reached. Although technically the whole thing is still sitting on the table, so to speak.

But in short, even if it is not a satisfactory response for you: for the same reason the Native Americans didn't recognize the first American colonies as a state. For the same reason that you wouldn't recognize occupiers of California who threw you out of your home as a state.

While I personally see Israel as a state - they have been there my entire life, hard to go back on that kind of thinking - I don't think the Palestinians should recognize them as sh*t until their needs are recognized.

You're right....I am a tad disappointed that the direct questions I posed to you were not  answered to my hope of peace.  But I suppose you did reinforce my overall conclusion, that there can be no peace, with even the most basic starting point as not being needed to be accomplished. 

In this supposed 2 state goal, so long as 1 state has on their agenda the death/destruction of the other state, I see no reason-what-so-ever for the state being targeted to make any effort to "negotiate" with that particular other state.  Regardless of how evil you think Israel has been.  As such, that position you've adopted provides Israel the latitude to do whatever it needs to protect itself and its very existance.....with an emphasis on the whatever     

[sirs]

As for having to try and find reading time? You spend enough time in here in a month to read the entire Tibetan Buddhist Nyingma School cannon. Which is, BTW, around the size of 120 large, hard cover, dictionaries.


BSB

"In here" is a few minutes at a time, sprinkled thru-out the day.  I have MANY books on my agenda to read, and simply don't have that extra time to just sit and read.  I'm not a "read 1 paragragh at a time then leave to go do x", kinda guy.


Sirs

[Xavier_Onassis]

The Library does have King Abdullahs' book, but it was listed as on a cart, and no one could find it.

Perhaps it will be there next week.

I do not see why it would have to be biased. I would not expect it to be pro-Israeli, but after all, Jordan has a peace arrangement with Israel.

Netanyahu is an extremist, even for an Israeli. He comes here and meddles in our politics like he owns the place.

The US press is extremely biased. I recall that Abdullah's father, King Hussein was routinely referred to in the US press as "The Little King", because he was, well, short. Menachim Begin was also vertically challenged,and yet no one called him "The Little Prime Minister", nor was Ariel Sharon even called  "Fatso Sharon", or  :The Obese Sharon" or "The porcine Prime Minister".

[Xavier_Onassis]

For every Israeli killed by Palestinians, ELEVEN Palestinians have been killed by Israelis.

Yet Israel complains about poor security and will only accept a Palestine with no army.

[sirs]

Source please.......and context on how they are "killed"

Not to mention that it changes nothing of the current reality

[Xavier_Onassis]

They were doubtless killed in a variety of ways. You want a source, look it up for yourself.

It comes down to this: 11 dead Palestinians for every dead Israelis.
I am pretty sure no one was killed with kindness.

Few were killed by Hamas rockets: three was what I heard, and several wounded.

[sirs]

They were doubtless killed in a variety of ways. You want a source, look it up for yourself.

You want credibility to your claim, you provide it yourself