Puerto Ricans opt for statehood in referendum

[hnumpah]

I believe Sirs argument is along the lines of, well, if you can't afford to relocate, we don't want you.

Says a lot about inclusion.

CU4 added the 'they no speakee the Eenglish' excuse.

Theirs is the party that is trying to figure out now how to reach out to minorities, women, young voters, and so on?

[BT]

So long as they set up a residence.  They are U.S. citizens, or so I'm told

They are already US citizens. Have been since 1917.

They can be drafted and they pay some Federal taxes.

They just are not holding the full rights and privileges to that status.

[sirs]

So long as they set up a residence.  They are U.S. citizens, or so I'm told

They are already US citizens. Have been since 1917.

They can be drafted and they pay some Federal taxes.

They just are not holding the full rights and privileges to that status.

Then they can relocate into a state that does give them all that, and bypass all the bureaucracy associated with a non-citizen trying to legally immigrate

I believe Sirs argument is along the lines of, well, if you can't afford to relocate, we don't want you.

Not quite.......We want anyone that wants to come here.  But it's wholly inappropriate, and borderline unconstitutional, that tax payers be made to pay for them to come.  Says alot about personal responsibility.  It's a party that understands both moral and fiscal responsibility.  Is that why you hate them so much? 

In other words, you seem to be arguing that the GOP needs to buy themselves more voters, with other people's money.....in other words, to be Democrats.  That's not my definition of inclusion, that's for sure. 

[Xavier_Onassis]

Next they will start trying to make every Indian Reservation a new state to get more socialist senators.

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That is a classic example of a poorly thought out "slippery slope" logical fallacy. No one has proposed this,and it certainly will never happen. It reveals that you know diddly about Indian reservations, among other things.

In actual fact, DC and PR should BOTH get two senators and however many representatives correspond to their population, just like the other states.

[BT]

But it's wholly inappropriate, and borderline unconstitutional, that tax payers be made to pay for them to come.

Who said anything about taxpayers paying for them to relocate?

[Xavier_Onassis]

It is not very expensive to fly from San Juan to NYC or Miami. There are dozens of flights in huge airplanes. The main usage of huge Boeings are from NYC to San Juan and various parts of the Arab World to Mecca.

I don't think anyone has suggested subsidizing Puerto Ricans coming here.

In the movie Papi, a Puerto Rican fakes coming ashore as a Cuban to get Cuban refugee ("exile") benefits.

[sirs]

But it's wholly inappropriate, and borderline unconstitutional, that tax payers be made to pay for them to come.

Who said anything about taxpayers paying for them to relocate?

H is the one trying to argue the point about "relocating".  But to placate the notion, it would be the massive amount of Federal spending that would be injected into a state that neds to be "brought up to code" to compete with the other 50states.  The increased amount of Federal & Government agencies that would have to be built and staffed to deal with all the new citizenry.  It's actually a pretty endless list

Throw in a pair of Senators that would undoubtedly be Democrats, and poof, instant increase in politicians pushing for bigger and bigger government.

Or, they can relocate on their own, and bam, full representation and rights abound

[BT]

But it's wholly inappropriate, and borderline unconstitutional, that tax payers be made to pay for them to come.

Who said anything about taxpayers paying for them to relocate?

H is the one trying to argue the point about "relocating".  But to placate the notion, it would be the massive amount of Federal spending that would be injected into a state that neds to be "brought up to code" to compete with the other 50states.  The increased amount of Federal & Government agencies that would have to be built and staffed to deal with all the new citizenry.  It's actually a pretty endless list

Throw in a pair of Senators that would undoubtedly be Democrats, and poof, instant increase in politicians pushing for bigger and bigger government.

Or, they can relocate on their own, and bam, full representation and rights abound

Maybe i missed it, but i don't recall Bear saying a thing about taxpayers paying for them to relocate, so maybe you could point us in the right direction concerning your statement in question.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I doubt that PR or DC will be given statehood representation anytime soon, but that does not mean that it would be improper for them to do so.

DC should have at LEAST one voting senator and one voting rep. There is no reason for them to be denied this.

[sirs]

Maybe i missed it, but i don't recall Bear saying a thing about taxpayers paying for them to relocate, so maybe you could point us in the right direction concerning your statement in question.

Simple......H referenced relocation, as my supposed arguement, since I'm the one advocating the need to move into a state that offers such rights and representation, that's supposedly the issue.......I responded in clearing up his arguement in who is supposed to pay for any relocation, if they are unable to.......the taxpayers.  Then you started to ask me about relocation, in which I've attempted to respond to you about it, and did more so in the "options" you presented

At no time to did I claim, or even infer, H said anything to do with taxpayer relocation.

[BT]

So to be clear, it was you who brought up relocation as a means to achieve full citizenship rights and privileges?  And it was you who extrapolated that the fed would have to pay for this relocation if they could not afford it?

[sirs]

So to be clear, it was you who brought up relocation as a means to achieve full citizenship rights and privileges?

Yes

And it was you who extrapolated that the fed would have to pay for this relocation if they could not afford it?

yes...if the notion is to grant the entire citizenry of PR full representation as a resident of the U.S.  The cost to tax payers would be even far worse, to try and make a 51st state of of PR, as I addressed in an earlier thread

But if they took it upon themselves to relocate, bam....full representation as a resident of the U.S. without the huge tax burden on those already paying "their fair share"

[hnumpah]

We're back to 'We got ours...'

It doesn't matter that the people of Puerto Rico have voted in a referendum to apply for statehood. It doesn't matter that Puerto Ricans serve honorably in the US military, pay taxes, and are already US citizens in pretty much everything except representation in US government, we should completely ignore the will of the people and force them to move to one of the 50 already admitted United States in order to gain that representation.

No one forced Hawaiians to relocate to the US for that right, rather than be granted statehood. Or Alaskans. Or Californians, or Oregonians, or Washingtonians, Nevadans, Arizonans, or anyone from anywhere other than the original 13 colonies. They all followed the procedure of voting in favor of statehood, petitioning for statehood, adopting a form of government and a constitution in compliance with the US Constitution, and being accepted and welcomed into the United States by a simple majority vote of Congress.

Nowhere in that process is there a requirement for a minimum income or that English be the first language of the people.

Here is some information from 2010, when HR 2499 was being discussed ( http://naturalresources.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=183105 ), and here is information on the passage of HR 2499 ( http://www.examiner.com/article/h-r-2499-passes-moving-puerto-rico-one-step-closer-to-statehood ), also from 2010.

Note in the first article there is an estimate of the cost to the federal budget of what it would cost per year if Puerto Rico were to become a state. This is much less than was spent per year to fight the war in Iraq. It just seems odd to me that you were willing to spend that much in money per year (not mention over 4,000 American lives lost) in a war 8.000 miles away but you worry about spending maybe a tenth of that per year to allow Puerto Rico to become a state.

[Xavier_Onassis]

It just seems odd to me that you were willing to spend that much in money per year (not mention over 4,000 American lives lost) in a war 8.000 miles away but you worry about spending maybe a tenth of that per year to allow Puerto Rico to become a state.
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I think it might be because they heard that Puerto Ricans are Democrats, often Blacks or Mulattoes, while Iraq had a REPUBLICAN Guard.

[hnumpah]

...those already paying "their fair share"

...They fought alongside General Bernardo de Gálvez during the American Revolutionary War in the battles of Baton Rouge, Mobile, Pensacola and St. Louis. During the mid-19th century, Puerto Ricans residing in the United States fought in the American Civil War...

...Upon the outbreak of World War I, the U.S. Congress approved the Jones-Shafroth Act, which imposed United States citizenship (the Puerto Rican House of Delegates rejected US citizenship) with limitations upon Puerto Ricans and made them eligible for the military draft. As citizens of the United States, Puerto Ricans have participated in every major United States military engagement from World War I onward. During World War II, Puerto Ricans participated in the Pacific and Atlantic theaters, not only as combatants, but also as commanders. It was during this conflict that Puerto Rican nurses were allowed to participate as members of the WAACs. The members of Puerto Rico's 65th Infantry Regiment distinguished themselves in combat during the Korean War and during the Vietnam War four Puerto Ricans were awarded the Medal of Honor, the highest military honor in the United States. Presently Puerto Ricans continue to serve in the military of the United States...

...About 20,000 Puerto Ricans were drafted during World War I...

...During World War II, it is estimated by the Department of Defense that 65,034 Puerto Ricans served in the U.S. military...

...Sergeant First Class Agustín Ramos Calero was awarded a total of 22 decorations and medals his actions in Europe during World War II, thus becoming most decorated soldier in the United States Military during that war...

...Puerto Rican soldiers were also subject to human experimentation by the United States Armed Forces. On Panama's San Jose Island, Puerto Rican soldiers were exposed to mustard gas to see if they reacted differently than their "white" counterparts...

...Sixty-one thousand Puerto Ricans served in the Korean War, including 18,000 Puerto Ricans who enlisted in the continental United States...

...During the Vietnam War, an estimated 48,000 Puerto Ricans served in the four branches of the armed forces...

...In 1990, 1,700 Puerto Rican National Guardsmen were among the 20,000 Hispanics deployed to the Persian Gulf in Operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm as part of the Gulf War...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Puerto_Rico

...More than 70 Puerto Ricans have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. The majority of them were born in Puerto Rico, but some were from New York and other states...

...More Puerto Ricans have fought in U.S. wars than have the citizens of 35 of the 50 states...

http://www.peoplesworld.org/puerto-ricans-and-iraq/