Author Topic: Shooting Down so-called "common sense gun control measures"  (Read 1628 times)

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sirs

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Shooting Down so-called "common sense gun control measures"
« on: December 22, 2012, 02:35:12 AM »
The unimaginable horror of Sandy Hook jump-starts another “national conversation” about firearm violence. President Barack Obama, promising “meaningful action,” said: “We will have to change. … We can’t tolerate this anymore. These tragedies must end.”

Let’s examine four of the “common-sense” measures frequently proposed by “gun-control advocates”:

One, closing the “gun show loophole.” What gun show loophole? Restricted from selling at guns shows prior to 1986, a licensed dealer today requires a background check whether he sells guns at a store, a gun show or the back of his SUV.

Two, banning “high-capacity” magazines. One of the firearms used by Adam Lanza was a Bushmaster .223, with a magazine that can carry as many as 30 rounds. Would there have been less carnage had he been limited to a firearm with low-capacity magazines? What is the appropriate amount of firepower? Clips with 10 rounds? Five rounds? If the idea is to reduce the lethality of the guns, what does this do to reduce the lethality of the shooter’s intent?

The deadliest school massacre on American soil appears to have occurred in Chicago in 1958. A student set fire to the school, killing 92 students and three nuns. And in 1927, in Michigan, a former member of the school board set bombs at three schools, killing 45 (mostly second- to sixth-graders), including the bomber.

The Columbine tragedy could have been worse. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold set bombs throughout the school, but only one partially detonated, doing little damage. But had the bombs gone off as intended, hundreds could have been killed.

Three, reinstating the so-called “assault weapons” ban. An “assault rifle” is one where puling the trigger unleashes a volley of bullets, like a Tommy gun or AK-47. Since 1934, these firearms require licensing and registration. And in 1986, these weapons were banned from civilian sale. These laws remain in effect.

The “assault weapons” ban did not restrict fully automatic weapons. Again, they were already under strict guidelines.

What exactly did this ban do? It outlawed certain weapons based on cosmetic features, many of which have nothing to do with the firepower or lethality. For example, the ban defined as an “assault weapon” a firearm with three or more of the following features: a folding or telescoping stock; a pistol grip; a bayonet mount; a flash suppressor; a muzzle capable of launching a grenade; and a magazine capacity over 10 rounds. It outlawed the manufacturing of 18 specific models of semi-automatic weapons.

The Bushmaster .223 was not one of the outlawed weapons.

The ban, enacted in 1994, expired 10 years later. What has been the result? Nothing. Crime was unaffected. The reason is simple. Assault-style rifles (the kind banned by the law) are rarely used in crime. Less than 1 percent of weapons used in crimes are fully automatic rifles (illegal to buy for nearly 30 years). An estimated 1 to 2 percent of firearms used in crime are assault-style rifles, like the one used in Newtown.

Four, requiring a mental health test to prevent the “mentally ill” from purchasing a firearm. The goal is to predict who will use a firearm in an unlawful way. But how to define mental illness? Is it depression? Abraham Lincoln supposedly suffered from depression or melancholia. Would the 16th president be denied the right to purchase a firearm? Do you forbid someone from purchasing a firearm if he or she is in therapy? Should a psychiatrist be required to inform the police when a client expresses anger, hatred or feelings of revenge?

Apart from the Second Amendment, how many other amendments to the Constitution will have been violated by denying someone the right to purchase a firearm because he is predicted to use the gun illegally – based on a psych test?

So what can be done?

We can harden the target to make it more likely that the shooter will encounter resistance.
We can re-examine the soundness of “gun-free” zones like schools and malls. By law and policy, these are places where bad guys know there are no guns.


Rampage school shootings in Pearl, Miss., Edinboro, Pa., and in Grundy, Va., have been stopped or minimized by citizens with legal weapons. More recently, it appears that a concealed-carry weapon (CCW) holder minimized the damage that a shooter sought to inflict at the Clackamas Mall near Portland, Ore.

Nick Meli, who has a CCW permit and was armed, positioned himself near the mall shooter. Meli did not shoot, but feels he stopped what could have been greater carnage: “I’m not beating myself up ’cause I didn’t shoot him. I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself.”

Americans, according to criminologist Gary Kleck, use guns 2.5 million times each year for self-defense, usually just brandishing the weapon. (The attacker is wounded in less than 8 percent of self-defense cases.)

Of the 2.5 million, 400,000 claim that but for their gun they would have been dead. If we’re serious about “doing something,” we might consider shifting the odds in favor of the good guys.

Some actual "Common Sense"
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Shooting Down so-called "common sense gun control measures"
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2012, 03:01:53 AM »
The film "Casablanca" has many famous lines, but none more immortal than Capt. Renault's order after seeing a Nazi officer shot by Humphrey Bogart's character, Rick Blaine: "Round up the usual suspects." He issues that command to give the impression he's trying to solve the crime. In the aftermath of the Newtown massacre, the Renault approach is alive and well.
The three suspects commonly cited are the purported danger of certain firearms, mentally ill individuals and modern forms of entertainment. They all make plausible culprits, until you look closely.

The first is our old nemesis the "assault weapon." The Newtown shooter used a Bushmaster semiautomatic rifle, which resembles a military model, and several 30-round magazines. President Barack Obama and several Democratic senators are therefore calling for a renewal of the "assault weapons" ban that expired in 2004.

But the guns they would ban are functionally identical to innumerable guns that would not be outlawed. Contrary to myth, these firearms don't produce bursts of automatic fire, don't "spray" bullets and aren't any more lethal than other semiautomatic guns. They are exceptional only in how they look.

What would a new ban achieve? As Reason's Jacob Sullum noted, Connecticut forbids the same assault weapons covered by the old federal law. Under its terms, however, the gun used by Adam Lanza was legal.

The gun-control advocates also want to prohibit high-capacity magazines, limiting them to 10 rounds. The lifesaving value of this change is likely to be close to zero. Ordinary street thugs rarely fire many rounds, and those intent on slaughtering large numbers of victims can carry multiple magazines and multiple guns. That's exactly what Lanza did.

The theory is that a shooter who has to pause to reload can be stopped. But switching out a magazine takes only seconds. Florida State University gun scholar Gary Kleck says he knows of only one case where bystanders overcame a mass shooter when he stopped to reload.

Jared Loughner, who killed six people in Tucson, was tackled only after reloading, when his gun jammed. Lanza, shooting docile first graders in a confined space, didn't have to worry they would subdue him.

Many of the suggestions for averting the next massacre involve how we handle the mentally ill. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., called for denying guns to "those with a history of mental instability."

That's a bit like looking for your keys where the light is good instead of where you dropped them. We don't know that Lanza suffered from mental illness. His developmental disorder, Asperger's syndrome, is not associated with violence. Lori Shery, president of the Asperger Syndrome Education Network, told The New York Times his disorder was about as pertinent to the crime as the color of his hair.

Even if Lanza had some serious psychiatric ailment, it may explain nothing. The vast majority of mentally ill people are not dangerous, and the vast majority of violent criminals are not mentally ill.

Federal law already bars sales of guns to anyone declared mentally incompetent by a court. Durbin wants to improve state reporting of mental health records, which makes perfect sense. But broadening the criteria for mental-health disqualification, as others suggest, would punish millions of people who pose no risk. It's important to protect the rest of us from the mentally ill, but equally vital to protect them from indiscriminate sanctions.

So desperate are some people to make sense of the slaughter that they resorted to the flimsiest of straw men. Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., fretted about "the impact of violence in the entertainment culture."

Senate Commerce Committee Chairman Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., took a more threatening tack: "Major corporations, including the video game industry, make billions on marketing and selling violent content to children. They have a responsibility to protect our children. If they do not, you can count on the Congress to take a more aggressive role."

Seriously? If violence in media causes violence in the real world, how do they explain that homicides are less than half as common today as they were in 1980, before video games took off?

Does anyone think the new film of "Anna Karenina" will cause a rash of train suicides? Has Rockefeller heard of the First Amendment?

He evidently thinks video gamers can't understand the difference between fantasy and reality.

Funny thing: A lot of politicians have the same problem.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Shooting Down so-called "common sense gun control measures"
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2012, 08:51:01 AM »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Shooting Down so-called "common sense gun control measures"
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2012, 08:55:54 AM »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Shooting Down so-called "common sense gun control measures"
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2012, 11:00:59 AM »
FLASH!

Gun nuts are NOT the "good guys".

They are the fools who have flooded this country with guns.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Shooting Down so-called "common sense gun control measures"
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2012, 11:09:47 AM »
FLASH!

Gun nuts are NOT the "good guys".

They are the fools who have flooded this country with guns.

What we are discusing s howe you came to understand this backwards.

sirs

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Re: Shooting Down so-called "common sense gun control measures"
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2012, 11:18:24 AM »
Gun nuts are NOT the "good guys".

They are the fools who have flooded this country with guns.


Once again, xo gets it bassackwards.  Law abiding citizens who own guns ARE the good guys.  FACTUALLY, when they're the 1st on scene to someone with a gun, only 2-3 people may die.  By the time the police arrive, 14+ people have died.  THAT'S A FACT.  As much as xo despises law abiding citizens with guns, that he's willing to sacrifice 10+ more deaths, to hit the law abiding with still more gun laws??  Which ironically will make those numbers spread even further a part     :o

These so-called "common sense measures" target these same "good guys", while the real "bad guys", as in criminals, as in those who could care less what the lastest gun control law is, sit back and jump for joy at the potential Christmas presents the left is trying to shower them with 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Shooting Down so-called "common sense gun control measures"
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2012, 11:48:26 AM »
If there were fewer guns, there would be fewer gun deaths. How hard is that to understand?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Shooting Down so-called "common sense gun control measures"
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2012, 12:04:38 PM »
This isn't math, since if it were, you'd grasp how unstainable you and the Democrats are taking down this country economically, not to mention how increased taxes without any ounce of bringing spending under control is heading us towards a true Greece-like cliff

No, this is called reality, where simply less guns, as in banning and more laws, merely target those who are already law abiding, as in NOT the bad guys. 

The bad guys, as in criminals, as in those who could care less what the latest gun law is (except of course if its legislation making CCW's a little easier, such as with the Columbine killers), will continue to get guns, illegally if they must

What part of that do you not understand??
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Shooting Down so-called "common sense gun control measures"
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2012, 01:02:24 PM »
If we need guards in schools, and I do not think we do in most schools, let the gun freaks pay for them.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Shooting Down so-called "common sense gun control measures"
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2012, 01:27:56 PM »
Naaa......let the Teacher union freaks pay for them, if that's the biggest craw.  And subtract a few of vice-principals and bureaucratic adminstrators to each school, and whalaaa, problem for paying for guards solved
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Shooting Down so-called "common sense gun control measures"
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2012, 01:53:59 PM »


Absolutely....I mean, if we're going to be "fair"
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Shooting Down so-called "common sense gun control measures"
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2012, 02:17:27 PM »
That is stupid.

Even you are not so stupid as to be unaware of this.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Shooting Down so-called "common sense gun control measures"
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2012, 02:22:37 PM »
Unaware of what exactly, Professor Ignorant?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Shooting Down so-called "common sense gun control measures"
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2012, 04:39:41 PM »
If there were fewer guns, there would be fewer gun deaths. How hard is that to understand?

Because it is not true in any way at all.

If every responsible person in the USA was given an "assault rifle" the crime rate would not rise .

If all responsible persons were absolutely disarmed the gun violence rates would probly skyrocket.

So if you reduce guns via laws will the law abideing or the lawless be disarmed first?