Author Topic: warming "very likely"  (Read 8274 times)

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Plane

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warming "very likely"
« on: February 01, 2007, 11:54:38 PM »
http://www.yahoo.com/s/135781/*http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070202/ap_on_sc/france_climate_change

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"...using their strongest language yet on the issue — said now that world has begun to warm, hotter temperatures and rises in sea level "would continue for centuries" no matter how much humans control their pollution. The report also....[/quote

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: warming "very likely"
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2007, 12:03:01 AM »
The planet is warming up, probably at least in part because of something humans have done.

The ratwing keeps insisting that because MAYBE this is a natural phenomena, therefore there is nothing humans can do to slow down or even off or reduce it.

That is what I would call a bogus assumption. If less CO2 will slow global warming, then this is what should be done.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: warming "very likely"
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2007, 12:59:42 AM »
The planet is warming up, probably at least in part because of something humans have done.

The ratwing keeps insisting that because MAYBE this is a natural phenomena, therefore there is nothing humans can do to slow down or even off or reduce it.

That is what I would call a bogus assumption. If less CO2 will slow global warming, then this is what should be done.




Why?
What could be done that would be effective?

Shut down all of Chinas coal mines and all of Europes oil supplys and you still have a warming trend.

Perhaps we should consider becomeing proactive , one of my favoriate ideas is to plant a lot of trees where it is possible , preserve standing trees where that is possible and fertilise the open ocean ocean in the central pacific to encourage photo plancton.

If the rate of CO2 use by plants wre increased the problem would be reduced by just that much and the same effort would produce fruit ,lumber and fish  that could employ and feed people.

BT

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Re: warming "very likely"
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2007, 01:29:45 AM »
The problem with the whole global warming thing is the way it has been marketed. Nothing like dismissive us vs them tactics to rally the troops to your side. I know , lets alienate all the SUV and truck drivers and then expect them to feel shamed into joining your team.

Best way to get Joe six pack on your side is let him think that his factory will have to shut down in order to meet emission standards and then tell him by the way the guys who will get your job live in China or India and they are exempt from those same emission standards.

Why not tap into rural Americas love of the land by convincing them the way to slow global warming is by conserving energy and going back to living off the land and that includes things like solar and wind power.

Tap into their natural anti establishment mentality by urging them to get off the grid.

But no, these idiots wrap their rhetoric in soybean and tofu and expect everyone to jump, because they are better than us and certainly know better.




Plane

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Re: warming "very likely"
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2007, 01:35:03 AM »
How about Soil bank and reforestation measures?

Not just for us , but for places that are dieing for lak of tree like Hati?

BT

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Re: warming "very likely"
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2007, 01:42:46 AM »
Quote
How about Soil bank and reforestation measures?

Not just for us , but for places that are dieing for lak of tree like Hati?

Fine by me.


Lanya

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Re: warming "very likely"
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2007, 02:25:12 AM »
I listened to Daryl Hannah (sp) talk about living 'off the grid' on a late night show.  I had never heard that phrase.  It was cool, she was asked about it and she answered. Didn't preach.  But it sounded like you had to have a bunch of money to do it.   

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BT

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Re: warming "very likely"
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2007, 04:02:31 AM »
There is a guy in Vermont who has been weaning himself and his family of the grid.Comes up with some very creative solutions, most of his investment pays for itself in 3 years and he is 95% off the grid. He writes a blog for Popular Mechanics and chronicles it there. Where there is a will there is a way.


BT

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Amianthus

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Re: warming "very likely"
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2007, 07:05:58 AM »
I listened to Daryl Hannah (sp) talk about living 'off the grid' on a late night show.  I had never heard that phrase.  It was cool, she was asked about it and she answered. Didn't preach.  But it sounded like you had to have a bunch of money to do it.   

Yes you have. I've used that phrase a bunch of times.

Get "Mother Earth News" - there are articles about people getting off the grid in every issue. I remember one article from 3 or 4 years ago, written by an older lady. She went through a divorce, and used her settlement from that (like $10,000) to buy a piece of property and build a house that was off the grid. She ended up with a mortgage-free house & property after spending only about $4,500. It did require a lot of sacrifices and hard work on her part.

There are stories like these in every issue. This month has a couple in Ontario who built their own home, 2,500 square foot, for $87,500. The story is about how they paid for it all while they were building, so that it was free of a mortgage when they moved in.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Lyndon

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Re: warming "very likely"
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2007, 10:50:56 AM »
The report actually says warming of the climate is unequivocal, not just very likely. It is the human activities effect that is very likely, or as the report says "leading to very high confidence....." Very high confidence is then defined as a 9 out of 10 chance of beng correct. The report in full: http://www.ipcc.ch/SPM2feb07.pdf

Re Off the Grid: A good read is 'Better Off' by Eric Brende. As the dust jacket blurb says: "....steering clear of dogma, never sounding like a sanctimonious scold...." for those of us who like these things unsullied by agendas. http://www.off-grid.net/index.php?p=376/


Brassmask

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Re: warming "very likely"
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2007, 03:18:31 PM »
The problem with the whole global warming thing is the way it has been marketed. Nothing like dismissive us vs them tactics to rally the troops to your side. I know , lets alienate all the SUV and truck drivers and then expect them to feel shamed into joining your team.

Best way to get Joe six pack on your side is let him think that his factory will have to shut down in order to meet emission standards and then tell him by the way the guys who will get your job live in China or India and they are exempt from those same emission standards.

Why not tap into rural Americas love of the land by convincing them the way to slow global warming is by conserving energy and going back to living off the land and that includes things like solar and wind power.

Tap into their natural anti establishment mentality by urging them to get off the grid.

But no, these idiots wrap their rhetoric in soybean and tofu and expect everyone to jump, because they are better than us and certainly know better.


Yeah, life and death situations really just need good marketing.  Look how well the Bush "administration" has done with the "terrorists want to kill you" campaign.  It's simple and it strikes fear when played over and over again.  What they've done so much better than these fucking dirty hippies is Bush and the gang immediately go out and squash anyone who comes out with any other information to the contrary of their marketing strategy.

Why don't these loser "global warmers" learn? 

End of snark.

What you are failing to recognize, BT, is that these are scientists and when they see facts and they have OTHER scientists look at their facts to make sure that what they're seeing is, in fact, what they're seeing, they don't immediately think, "OK, now how are we going to get the public on board for this?"  To them, it's evidence that demands change and is not subject to the whims of a childish mindset amongst those who don't study the subject every day.

That's how science works.  It's not an arbitrary supposition or personal belief that they must convince everyone else is the correct opinion.  It's fact.  The sky is blue.  The sun is so and so many millions of miles away.  That's the difference between scientists and the Bush "administration" who has ulterior motives that must be protected when at odds with science.  I'm really surprised that you don't see it this way.


BT

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Re: warming "very likely"
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2007, 03:25:54 PM »
The scientific community is split with some saying global warming is cyclical and that the average mans contribution to it is negligible.

You want someone to lose weight yopu don't deride them, you show how a healthy diet is better for them all the way around.

I suspect global warming is more a power issue than some end of the earth crisis. I also believe that mandatory compliance is the surest way to resistance vs the more effective method of gentle persuasion.

Besides why should China and India be exempt for Kyoto anyway?

Brassmask

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Re: warming "very likely"
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2007, 03:30:24 PM »
The scientific community is split with some saying global warming is cyclical and that the average mans contribution to it is negligible.

You want someone to lose weight yopu don't deride them, you show how a healthy diet is better for them all the way around.

I suspect global warming is more a power issue than some end of the earth crisis. I also believe that mandatory compliance is the surest way to resistance vs the more effective method of gentle persuasion.

Besides why should China and India be exempt for Kyoto anyway?


The scientific community is perhaps split along the lines of who has gotten a check from Exxon/Mobil and who hasn't but that is where the "split" ends (Oh, that's awesome).

BTW, there were tornadoes in Florida today.  They didn't stray into your state, did they?  Everything ok?  What's with tornadoes in freaking February???

BT

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Re: warming "very likely"
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2007, 03:35:52 PM »
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They didn't stray into your state, did they?

No we are getting over an icestorm.

What's with icestorms in February?