Author Topic: No Theocracy, Huh?  (Read 4644 times)

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Brassmask

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No Theocracy, Huh?
« on: April 03, 2013, 05:04:35 PM »
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2013/04/03/lawmakers_want_state_religion_in_north_carolina.html

Lawmakers Want State Religion in North Carolina
Republican lawmakers in North Carolina introduced a bill to allow the state "to declare an official religion, in violation of the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Bill of Rights, and seeks to nullify any federal ruling against Christian prayer by public bodies statewide," WRAL-TV reports.



sirs

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Re: No Theocracy, Huh?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2013, 05:53:59 PM »
Welcome back Brass.  And no, still no mandate that someone must follow any specific religion.  Any such effort by any state will be DOA upon reaching SCOTUS....as it should be

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: No Theocracy, Huh?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2013, 07:40:58 PM »
The Congregational Church was the Official State Church of Connecticut until 1818.

So these hicks in NC are only 195 years behind the times.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: No Theocracy, Huh?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2013, 09:06:57 PM »
Nice to see you Brassmask.

Since the first admendment applys to Congress exclusively in the establishment clause , how can a state government violate it?

Didn't some states have preferred churches when the constitution was written? and for years afterward?


It may be a bad idea without being unconstitutional.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: No Theocracy, Huh?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2013, 09:11:32 PM »
Perhaps the states DO have a constitutional right to have an established religion.

It is a stupid idea. It is not like anyone needs this to prevent the legislature from invoking Sharia law on all them yokels.

Stupidity can clearly be constitutional.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: No Theocracy, Huh?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2013, 09:32:50 PM »


Stupidity can clearly be constitutional.
Definately!

Quote
"In America you have a right to be stupid - if you want to be," - John Kerry


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/26/us-usa-kerry-liberties-idUSBRE91P0HJ20130226

kimba1

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Re: No Theocracy, Huh?
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2013, 12:17:06 AM »
ain`t Maryland catholic??

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: No Theocracy, Huh?
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2013, 10:12:18 AM »
Maryland was begun as a Catholic colony. Later, I think some colonial government declared the Anglican Church to be the state church. That was revoked a long time ago.

The apparent purpose of this proposed law (it has since been removed from the docket), was to allow prayer in schools and at public events.

Passing it would have resulted in a series of legal test cases, and would have cost the state a lot of money, and they would have lost. Apparently, someone explained this to the fools who proposed it.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 06:05:55 PM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: No Theocracy, Huh?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2013, 06:34:52 PM »
Maryland was begun as a Catholic colony. Later, I think some colonial government declared the Anglican Church to be the state church. That was revoked a long time ago.

The apparent purpose of this proposed law (it has since been removed from the docket), was to allow prayer in schools and at public events.

Passing it would have resulted in a series of legal test cases, and would have cost the state a lot of money, and they would have lost. Apparently, someone explained this to the fools who proposed it.
So our freedom depends on the money we are willing to spend on it?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: No Theocracy, Huh?
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2013, 02:39:47 PM »
What freedom?

What would happen would be that if NC passed this stupid law proclaiming NC to be officially Christian, it would be immediately challenged by the ACLU and others, taken to one or more superior courts,and declared unconstitutional. The taxpayers of NC would have to pay the costs, and the fundies would get nothing.

There is no freedom to exclude non Christian religions from any state. That is not freedom.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

kimba1

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Re: No Theocracy, Huh?
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2013, 11:31:39 AM »
Yeah,but what kind of christian. A few decades ago all the protestant churches tried to unify but the churches are so diverse now it simply can't be done. Unless nc churches are already unified . Thiers gonna be arguement which christian the state is gonna be

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: No Theocracy, Huh?
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2013, 12:21:55 PM »
The Southern and Northern Methodists, Dutch Reformed, Church of Christ and several others have declared themselves to be united in purpose. Hence the name "UNITED Methodists.


The Roman Catholics, Episcopals, Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox, Syrians and several others recognize one another's baptisms marriages and such.

The proliferation of sects in the US mostly is the result of Southern Baptists (who do not have any sort of strong hierarchy)  and the fundamentalists, who are often organized around a single preacher in some sort of mega church.

You are correct, however, in saying that it is very unlikely that all the Christian churches will all ever unite.

I recall a conversation with a woman who said "We ought to have prayer in the schools: there wasn't so much crime when we had prayer in the schools."

I asked her to suggest a prayer that everyone could agree upon.

She said "I don't want to talk about this any more."

Of course, the per capita crime rate was higher then than it was at that time.

But, of course, there was a LOT MORE crime being committed on teevee.

She could have solved this crime by just getting people to use different toothpaste or detergents.
 


"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: No Theocracy, Huh?
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2013, 10:43:11 PM »
That is right , we can't have anything in schools unless we can all agree about it.

Which is why school continues to grow bland.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: No Theocracy, Huh?
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2013, 10:50:27 PM »
I suppose we could allow Mississippi to claim that the South won the Civil War.

I do not see why anyone needs to teach religion in public schools. We can teach ABOUT it, but starting the day with a prayer to Jesus would not make it less bland.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: No Theocracy, Huh?
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2013, 11:00:21 PM »
Everything we do to more closely approach the least common denominator , in other words , a school free of risk or controversy, blandifies.

If we ran the schools on a voucher system there would be variety of schools and we would not have to put up with an objectionable prayer , or curriculum, or blandness.

Lots of us would choose schools with Christian focus , but if these did not compete well parents would abandon them too.

This is exactly the kind of problem that monopoly causes and competition fixes.