So, seriously.....any ideas on how to deal with North Korea?

[Michael Tee]

Normal deterrence policy: 
1.  Do this (usually attacking us with nukes) and we'll do that (attack you with nukes.) 

2.  Give somebody else the weapon or the technology or know-how that enables them to attack us with nukes, and if they then attack us with nukes, we'll attack YOU with nukes, even if the actual attack came from them.  (and of course we'll nuke them too, but that's not much of a deterrent to you, is it?)

Krauthammer deterrence policy
1.  Whether or not we can prove that you are behind the attack, if anyone nukes us, we will assume that they got know-how or technology or weapons or materials from you that enabled that attack, and so you better pray that nobody attacks us because we'll nuke you.  We'll nuke you on suspicion alone.

[Plane]

   So the only diffrrence between the Kroughthimer policy and the "normal" deterance is the diffrence between assumption and proof?


      Since when did anyone require proof ?

[sirs]

Krauthammer deterrence policy
1.  Whether or not we can prove that you are behind the attack, if anyone nukes us, we will assume that they got know-how or technology or weapons or materials from you that enabled that attack, and so you better pray that nobody attacks us because we'll nuke you.  We'll nuke you on suspicion alone.

Not quite, but thanks for playing

[Michael Tee]

<<Since when did anyone require proof ?>>

You gotta be kidding!  When MILLIONS of human beings stand to be incinerated on the push of a button?  I don't know what planet you've been spending your time on lately, plane, but even in the United States of America, some effort would be made to ensure that the victims' country was in some way related to the attack.

The Krauthammer plan - - I kid you not - - was, regardless of whether you North Koreans had anything to do with the attack or not, we are gonna nuke you.  And that is quite a departure.

[Plane]

Krauthammer deterrence policy
1.  Whether or not we can prove that you are behind the attack, if anyone nukes us, we will assume that they got know-how or technology or weapons or materials from you that enabled that attack, and so you better pray that nobody attacks us because we'll nuke you.  We'll nuke you on suspicion alone.

Not quite, but thanks for playing

Wait a minute , why is this not a good idea , even on these terms as MT is stateing them?

North Korea has used catspaws before , so have others.

It is just to odvious and easy as a method to get some crazy that traces to some other wacky dictator .

There are only a few sorces for this knoledge and equipment , the most likely should be the one most worried .

In the Days of MAD with the Soviet Union , it was clear that an unexplained attack would be assumed to be from the Soviets , this continued to be true after the French and Chineese made their own version of the A-Bomb.

What MT is talking about is old hat and established policy , policy that has a proven track record.

[Plane]

" some effort would be made to ensure that the victims' country was in some way related to the attack."

No

No such effort should be undertaken unless it can be accomplished almost instantly.

[sirs]

The Krauthammer plan - - I kid you not - - was, regardless of whether you North Koreans had anything to do with the attack or not, we are gonna nuke you

Why you insist on completely misrepresenting his "plan" just keeps reinforcing how meritless your accusations are as it relates to his "plan"

[Michael Tee]

Plane, you are living in a fantasy world.  NOBODY is going to nuke millions of human beings simply on suspicion that their country MIGHT have done something wrong.  That's never been anybody's policy and that's why Krauthammer's proposal was so off-the-wall crazy.

[Plane]

Plane, you are living in a fantasy world.  NOBODY is going to nuke millions of human beings simply on suspicion that their country MIGHT have done something wrong.  That's never been anybody's policy and that's why Krauthammer's proposal was so off-the-wall crazy.

Man you are an incureable optomist.


This is the description of MAD, the policy that the USA and USSR shared for more than fourty years.

Do you think that Washington of Moscow dissapearing suddenly in say 1968 or 1980 would result in a calm investigation ,a fair trial and an exactly equivelent response?

[Michael Tee]

MAD was  predicated on a bi-polar or tri-polar nuclear world and assumed that the delivery device would be tracked by NORAD.  They would know exactly where any incoming warhead originated.  Missiles were tracked.  Submarines were tracked.  Nobody but you, as far as I know, has ever suggested that MAD called for the obliteration of a country on mere suspicion.

As a matter of fact, if you took the trouble to read Krauthammer's proposal, he took pains to point out that the advent of "terrorism" had made the old policies of deterrence (which obviously must have included MAD) insufficient.  He took pains to point out that his new policy was designed to deal with a situation which the older policies of deterrence never had to deal with.

Not only are you fantasizing, but your fantasy is pretty sick. 

[Plane]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15265432/site/newsweek/





"Not only are you fantasizing, but your fantasy is pretty sick.  "



So you feel that North Korea is pretty sick for haveing a simular policy?

[Michael Tee]

<<So you feel that North Korea is pretty sick for haveing a simular policy?>>

Their policy is self-defence against a country which conducts annual joint military exercises with South Korea within kilometres of the border, demonizes them as part of an Axis of Evil and threatens them repeatedly.  North Korea has attacked nobody since the end of the Korean War.  I've lost count of the number of countries the U.S.A. has attacked since then.  I can understand that a healthy policy of self-defence, particularly with nuclear weapons, might not be pleasing in the eyes of fascist America, but (a) I wouldn't call it "similar" to American policy and (b) I wouldn't call it sick.

[Amianthus]

Submarines were tracked.

Maybe early on.

[Plane]

<<So you feel that North Korea is pretty sick for haveing a simular policy?>>

Their policy is self-defence against a country which conducts annual joint military exercises with South Korea within kilometres of the border, demonizes them as part of an Axis of Evil and threatens them repeatedly.  North Korea has attacked nobody since the end of the Korean War.  I've lost count of the number of countries the U.S.A. has attacked since then.  I can understand that a healthy policy of self-defence, particularly with nuclear weapons, might not be pleasing in the eyes of fascist America, but (a) I wouldn't call it "similar" to American policy and (b) I wouldn't call it sick.

No .

North Korea has just announced that all actions by any nation to enforce the orders of the UN will be construed as an act of war by the US.

[The_Professor]

All propaganda. No one takes this rhetoric seriously. It is the old "boy cries wolf" syndrome.

I am afraid that the only party that has any effect on NK is China and their interests are not necessarily ours, or are they?