Author Topic: The real "war on children"  (Read 9812 times)

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sirs

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The real "war on children"
« on: October 21, 2007, 09:50:45 PM »
The real war on children
MARK STEYN
Syndicated columnist


On Thursday, Congress attempted to override President Bush's veto of the SCHIP expansion. SCHIP? Isn't that something to do with health care for children? Absolutely. And here is Bay Area Democratic Rep. Pete Stark addressing the issue with his customary forensic incisiveness:

"The Republicans are worried that they can't pay for insuring an additional 10 million children. They sure don't care about finding $200 billion to fight the illegal war in Iraq. Where are you going to get that money? Are you going to tell us lies like you're telling us today? Is that how you're going to fund the war? You don't have money to fund the war on children, but you're going to spend it to blow up innocent people? If he can get enough kids to grow old enough for you to send to Iraq to get their heads blown off for the president's amusement."

I'm not sure I follow the argument here: President Bush wants to breed a generation of sickly uninsured children in order to send them to Iraq to stagger round the Sunni Triangle, weak and spindly and emaciated and rickets-stricken, to get their heads blown off? Is that the gist of it? No matter, Congressman Stark hit all the buzz words ? "children," "illegal war," "$200 billion," "lies," etc. ? and these days they're pretty much like modular furniture: You can say 'em in any order, and you'll still get a cheer from the crowd.

Congressman Stark is unlikely ever to be confused with Gen. Stark, who gave New Hampshire its stirring motto, "Live free or die!" In the congressman's case, the choice appears to be: "Live free on government health care or die in Bush's illegal war!" Nevertheless, in amongst the autopilot hooey the Stark raving madman did use an interesting expression: "the war on children."

One assumes he means some illegal Republican Party "war on children." Last Thursday, Nancy Pelosi, as is the fashion, used the phrase "the children" like some twitchy verbal tic, a kind of Democrat Tourette's syndrome: "This is a discussion about America's children ? We could establish ourselves as the children's Congress ? Come forward on behalf of the children ... I tried to do that when I was sworn in as speaker surrounded by children. It was a spontaneous moment, but it was one that was clear in its message: we are gaveling this House to order on behalf of the children."

Etc. So what is the best thing America could do "for the children"? Well, it could try not to make the same mistake as most of the rest of the Western world and avoid bequeathing the next generation a system of unsustainable entitlements that turns the entire nation into a giant Ponzi scheme. Most of us understand, for example, that Social Security needs to be "fixed" ? or we'll have to raise taxes, or the retirement age, or cut benefits, etc. But, just to get the entitlements debate in perspective, projected public pensions liabilities in the United States are expected to rise by 2040 to about 6.8 percent of our gross domestic product. In Greece, the equivalent figure is 25 percent ? that's not a matter of raising taxes or tweaking retirement age; that's total societal collapse.

So what? shrug the voters. Not my problem. I paid my taxes, I want my benefits.

In France, President Sarkozy is proposing a very modest step ? that those who retire before the age of 65 should not receive free health care ? and the French are up in arms about it. He's being angrily denounced by 53-year-old retirees, a demographic hitherto unknown to functioning societies. You spend your first 25 years being educated, you work for two or three decades, and then you spend a third of a century living off a lavish pension, with the state picking up every health care expense. No society can make that math add up.

And so, in a democratic system today's electors vote to keep the government gravy coming and leave it to tomorrow for "the children" to worry about. That's the real "war on children" ? and every time you add a new entitlement to the budget you make it less and less likely they'll win it.

A couple of weeks ago, the Democrats put up a 12-year-old SCHIP beneficiary from Baltimore, Graeme Frost, to deliver their official response to the President's Saturday-morning radio address. And immediately afterwards Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Malkin and I jumped the sick kid in a dark alley and beat him to a pulp. Or so you'd have thought from the press coverage: The Washington Post called us "meanies." Well, no doubt it's true we hard-hearted conservatives can't muster the civilized level of discourse of Pete Stark. But we were trying to make a point ? not about the kid, but about the family, and their relevance as a poster child for expanded government health care. Mr. and Mrs. Frost say their income's about $45,000 a year ? she works "part-time" as a medical receptionist, and he works "intermittently" as a self-employed woodworker. They have a 3,000-square-foot home plus a second commercial property with a combined value of over $400,000, and three vehicles ? a new Chevy Suburban, a Volvo SUV, and a Ford F-250 pickup.

How they make that arithmetic add up is between them and their accountant. But here's the point: The Frosts are not emblematic of the health care needs of America so much as they are of the delusion of the broader Western world. They expect to be able to work "part-time" and "intermittently" but own two properties and three premium vehicles and have the state pick up health care costs. Who do you stick with the bill? Four-car owners? Much of France already lives that way: A healthy, wealthy, well-educated populace works a mandatory maximum 35-hour week with six weeks of paid vacation and retirement at 55 and with the government funding all the core responsibilities of adult life.

I'm in favor of tax credits for child health care, and Health Savings Accounts for adults, and any other reform that emphasizes the citizen's responsibility to himself and his dependants. But middle-class entitlement creep would be wrong even if was affordable, even if Bill Gates wrote a check to cover it every month: it turns free-born citizens into enervated wards of the Nanny State. As Gerald Ford likes to say when trying to ingratiate himself with conservative audiences, "A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have." But there's an intermediate stage: A government big enough to give you everything you want isn't big enough to get you to give any of it back. As I point out in my book, nothing makes a citizen more selfish than socially equitable communitarianism: Once a fellow's enjoying the fruits of Euro-style entitlements, he couldn't give a hoot about the general societal interest; he's got his, and who cares if it's going to bankrupt the state a generation hence?

That's the real "war on children": in Europe, it's killing their future. Don't make the same mistake here.

Approaching total societal collapse

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: The real "war on children"
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2007, 10:12:10 PM »



« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 10:13:54 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: The real "war on children"
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2007, 01:01:54 PM »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: The real "war on children"
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2007, 01:39:28 PM »
Ah, Mark Steyn shoveling out the bovine feces again.

Now can you make an argument without a Canadian film and music critic making it for you?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
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   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: The real "war on children"
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2007, 02:10:20 PM »
Ah, Mark Steyn shoveling out the bovine feces again.

You betcha.  All that freedom from any monetary collapse to our Social servce entitlements, and getting layed at the feet of "the children" is just soooooooooo bogus




*sarcasm alert* for folks not accustom to such




Now can you make an argument without a Canadian film and music critic making it for you?

Been there done that.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: The real "war on children"
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2007, 02:18:37 PM »
We have very little social services in the United States. We have a nonexistent welfare system after TANF replaced AFDC. We have a disability benefit that is little more than a joke, purposefully designed to keep people away from it, even those who are in desperate need of disability payments.

All we really have is social security. For some, it is the only retirement they will have, especially as outservicing to private contracted labor groups has become more and more popular.

But yeah, let's get rid of it too. After all, a Canadian film and music critic and Sirs, a middle class American who complains about his taxes are worried about the children. Not mentioned here is the fact that the dubster's spending is all going to be paid for by the children. You know, Dick Cheney's "Reagan proved deficits don't matter" fiscal brilliance?

I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: The real "war on children"
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2007, 02:26:01 PM »
We have very little social services in the United States.

Well, if you're going to start with a false premise, its gonna be really hard to take anything that follows with any sense of validity.  Compared to many Euopean states/countries, perhaps, but trying to lay claim how we have "very little" is a pretty egregiously incorrect statement


All we really have is social security.

One of the biggest is indeed SS, which by the way, IS GOING TO GO BANKRUPT, unless major reforms are put into effect VERY SOON.  But no one seems to want to talk about that    >:(


But yeah, let's get rid of it too.

Ahh, and you'll do us the favor of showing us ANYONE here, or within the GOP, or with Bush, who has decided to "get rid of it".  We thank you in advance.

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: The real "war on children"
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2007, 03:01:07 PM »
It is not a false premise. Our welfare state is a joke. If you are going to accuse me of making a false premise, at least have the grapes to show me the data that I am wrong.

There are NUMEROUS people discussing social security and I'd bet almost every candidate for president has (or will have) it mentioned in their platform. That is not Mark Steyn's argument above, he is not accusing people of not discussing it, he is accusing them of becoming dependent upon it.

If you don't get rid of it, then how can you prevent the children from becoming dependent upon the evil communitarianism of European-style statism???
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: The real "war on children"
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2007, 03:23:50 PM »
It is not a false premise.

Sure it is.  We have a horde of social programs, and a Congress looking to expand it every year with new entitlements & more programs to help "the poor" & "the children".  As I've already said, just because we don't have it as bad as Europe doesn't negate the fact that year after year, regardless of which party is running things, social programs, consistently expand with more and more proposed.


There are NUMEROUS people discussing social security and I'd bet almost every candidate for president has (or will have) it mentioned in their platform.

"Discussing" is NOT PROPOSING.  "Discussing" is NOT FIXING 


That is not Mark Steyn's argument above,

It most certainly is a cornerstone to it.  You have leftist Dems using "for the children" in nearly every stump speech or when a microphone is in front of them, portraying how those mean nasty Republicans & Bush are condemning the children to misery & poor health, with the monies supposedly going instead to defend our country, all the while ignoring the elephant in the room, that of the insidiously increasing amount obligation by those same "children" to pay for the ever growing nanny state, with SS & Medicare being the closest to collapse



« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 04:45:28 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: The real "war on children"
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2007, 03:35:02 PM »
Quote
Whe have a horde of social programs

Such as? What is our spending per GDP relative to Europe, Japan, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand? What is our poverty rate in comparison? Homelessness? Hunger?

You bring the accusation, let's see the data.

Quote
"Discussing" is NOT PROPOSING.  "Discussing" is NOT FIXING

Discussing is the first part of the solution. The problem is estimated to hit home in 2041, so it is not exactly a crisis to be averted at this very moment. That means we have time to think, discuss, and properly execute a strategy that meets with public approval.

There is no need to get into Act First - Think Later mode.

Quote
all the while ignoring the elephant in the room, that of the insidiously increasing amount obligation by those same "children" to pay for the ever growing nanny state, with SS & Medicare being the closest to collapse

Oh please. "Ever growing nanny state" - bullshit. The only reason we have any growth there is because your president and your party voted to have a prescription drug benefit for the wealthiest subset of the population. If we get socialized healthcare, the expense of all of medical coverage will decrease dramatically.

I'm not a big fan of the Democrats playing politics with "the children" but it is no different than the Republicans playing politicis with "the troops."

That doesn't mean you and Steyn can come here and bald face lie about the condition of the United States welfare state.



I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

BT

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Re: The real "war on children"
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2007, 03:40:31 PM »
Quote
The only reason we have any growth there is because your president and your party voted to have a prescription drug benefit for the wealthiest subset of the population.

Does that mean granny no longer eats cat food?

What's with all the anger JS?

_JS

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Re: The real "war on children"
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2007, 03:49:28 PM »
Apologies all.

I spent the weekend at a battered women's shelter and a homeless men's shelter, doing work as well as seeing how things run. I was fortunate enough to talk with a lot of the people too.

I'm not really all that enamored of the "safety net" or the people who argue about great of a job Americans do at taking care of their poor.

Seeing homeless children is truly one of the saddest things I have ever witnessed. In this country the poorest of the poor seem to be avoided, they're something you don't talk about. I've even heard some people claim that in America the poor have cable, a car, etc (trust me, that's a massive lie).

But yeah, I owe apologies. I have been a bit of an ass today. I apologize.  :-[

I'll sit back and watch what other people write for a while.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Michael Tee

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Re: The real "war on children"
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2007, 04:24:47 PM »
It seems to be Mark Steyn's theory that if the Frost family were to divest itself of its two "surplus" cars and sell its only investment property, and maybe the family home as well, it would have enough money to pay for their kids' medical treatments. 

By now we should be familiar with the right wing's SOP of carefully selected facts, half-truths and outright lies skillfully combined to come to a "logical conclusion" which is completely at odds with everything that common sense and real life are telling us.

Let's look at the "premium" vehicles they own.  A new CHEVY is a "premium" vehicle?  Bwahahahahaha.  I checked the prices on new Chevy SUV's against other brands.  No way is a Chevy SUV a premium anything.  Notice how careful Steyn is to tell you the Chevy is "new" while saying ab-so-loot-lee nuthin about the age or condition of the other two vehicles.  Wanna bet neither one a them's a "premium" vehicle?  For all we know at this point they could both be 12-year-old rust-buckets.

Nor is Steyn interested in whether both the husband and wife each need a vehicle for their work.  Maybe only ONE of the vehicles is surplus, but since one's a pick-up, it might conceivably be something that is also a necessity rather than a luxury.  Steyn, so keen to inform us of little details like the brands and number of vehicles owned, and the fact that one of them is new, is remarkably silent on all other details that would assist his readers in determining for themselves whether the Frosts are foolish spendthrifts or careful money managers.  IMHO, that was no accident.

Also the residence and the commercial property with the "combined value" of $400K.  Combined value of the unencumbered equity or the combined value of both properties BEFORE taking off what's owing for mortgage principal, interest and taxes?  Again, Steyn is silent.  IMHO, conveniently so.  Most properties ARE encumbered by mortgages, and in an era of declining prices are virtually unsaleable.  Don't matter to Steyn, though - - in order to maximize the wealth of the uber-rich Republicans who set the policies and provide the financing and  leadership for the Republican Party, he's willing to fuck a hard-working family like the Frosts right up the ass. 

"Your kids need health care and medicines?  Hey, no problem, sell your "premium" (LOL) cars, sell your fucking home.  Sell the commercial property you own too.  Bad time to sell?  Tough shit.  Like I care?  I'm a fuckin Republican, I don't HAVE to care."

Why a guy should have to dump his home and sole realty investment as well as the family cars to provide medical care for his sick children, when a universal health-care coverage scheme is within the reach of the American people is totally beyond me.  What's even more outrageous, we don't even know if by liquidating everything he owns, for the greater glory and enrichment of his health-care providers and the pharmaceutical industry, Mr. Frost would STILL be able to pay for his kids' well-being.  What's next?  Is Mrs. Frost good-looking enough to turn a few tricks to keep the doctors and Big Pharma happy for a few more years of the kids' lives?

No, I don't think Bush is making war on children.  He's making war on families, children included.


Plane

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Re: The real "war on children"
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2007, 04:46:06 PM »
The Social Security System cannot be saved in its present form.

This is a fact and it doesn't depend on any decision that can be made .

Social Security will either shrink or collapse OR gather in more contributions.

Gathering in more contributions will delay the shrink or collapse without really preventing it.


Estimates of its running out in 2041 depend on haveing the good economy we have now the entire time , this seems unlikely to me.

What seems likely to me is a period of high unemployment causeing the collapse to occur immediately, with snowballing effects as one collapse drags down another part of the economy and then another and then another.

I guess we will have another great depression only this time we will all have computers to gripe about it with.

Michael Tee

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Re: The real "war on children"
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2007, 08:19:59 PM »
You (plane) talk about SS "collapsing" as if it were an independent organic being with a life of its own, like an albino tiger or something.  It is a creation of government like the U.S. Army, and like the Army it will collapse or thrive depending on whether the government of the day collects taxes and forks them over or not.

If the people of the U.S. continue to elect governments that care more about oil (oops, excuse me, about "bringing democracy" to the people of Iraq, of all places!) than they care about the American working class, then there WILL be a "collapse" of the system and it won't have funds to pay benefits to its elder citizens.  However, the lucky citizens of Iraq WILL have "democracy" forced down their throats at a cost of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives every year and even more crippled and maimed.

When the brainwashed dumb fucks of the U.S. electorate finally awaken to what "their" government is doing to them, in sufficient numbers so that even the hundreds of thousands of votes stolen by the Republicans in every election will not be enough to tip the balance, then they WILL (finally) get a government that cares more about them than about getting a shitload of new oil wells (oops!  sorry, I mean about bringing "democracy" to Iraq) and they will have the benefits that God and Franklin D. Roosevelt intended for them to have.  But first they will have to perform some major housecleaning inside the Democratic Party.