McCain's War Policy Called 'Surrender' to Bin Laden

[Michael Tee]

<<Then why use the "thousands of liberals" as proof of your thesis?>>

As I said already, it was NOT as proof of my thesis, it was as a counter to your attempts and sirs' to margnialize my ideas by comparing them to a mental illness or to empty ideas conceived merely for shock value.  The ideas of a lunatic or a shock jock would not be expected to have a lot of followers.  The numbers game was something that you and sirs like to play a lot (to cover the essential bankruptcy of your own ideas) and not only in this thread.  I felt that a healthy reminder from time to time that the mainstream is actually liberal, and that it is fascism that is the marginal idea, not the other way round, would be in order.

[Amianthus]

You should check this out with Ami first.  According to Ami, none of them agreed with Hitler, they were all just terrorized by him.

Nothing like saying I said something I never said.

[BT]

Both Howard Stern and Don Imus have quite a following. So i am not sure where you are taking this argument.

[Michael Tee]

<<Nothing like saying I said something I never said.>>

Well, I WAS going to put in a "grin" icon or something to indicate that I was deliberately exaggerating your position with humorous intent, but then I thought, that's insulting.  Apparently not.  I'll spell it out for you.  That was a JOKE, Ami. 

[Michael Tee]

<<Both Howard Stern and Don Imus have quite a following. So i am not sure where you are taking this argument.>>

It was an aside, not an argument.  You needed a reminder that you weren't talking to a party of one and you got it.  Not sure where YOU are taking this, at this point.  MY point is made. 

[sirs]

<<Then why use the "thousands of liberals" as proof of your thesis?>>

...I felt that a healthy reminder from time to time that the mainstream is actually liberal, and that it is fascism that is the marginal idea, not the other way round, would be in order.

Ahhh, that explains why the country has consistently voted down UHC, nearly ever time it was tried, why the country has universally voted for Marriage amendments in their respective states, that clarify marriage is between a man & a woman, & why the country has consistently opposed amnesty acts by the Fed.  Because the mainstream is actually Liberal.  Where tax cuts are supported by tax payers, and School choice/vouchers, in the most liberal urban areas of the city are supported by the parents.  Yea, that's it     

In Tee's alternate reality, where up is down, down is up, where the MSM is a bunch of RW corporate hacks, where socialism is the all the successful rage, and Bush is a moronic version of Hitler, that kind of garbage can fly.  Here on this planet, and in particular, this country, the facts clearly state otherwise 

[Michael Tee]

Ah, but UHC is coming, it's inevitable.  It will be one of the factors in the coming Democratic victory in November.  Even the homophobic gay marriage votes probably are more representative of those who voted on the initiatives, a small portion of the general public at large, most of whom did not vote on those initiatives.  If you really want a measure of popular attitudes liberalizing on gay issues, look at the decriminalization of homosexual acts and the support for civil unions - - not ideal liberal positions but a far cry from the institutional homophobia just one generation before.  The trend is clearly towards liberalization  of gay rights.

[The_Professor]

"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

It has appeared to me for some time that this great naton of ours is slowly but steadily heading in the direction of the god of socialism. If you give the populace an increasing array of social services and incentives, their expectation levels will increase and be thirsty for even more.

[Michael Tee]

<<"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide.">>

Whereas conservatism is a philosophy of active destruction of the social fabric and international relations of western civilization so that its internal and external enemies can destroy it before it HAS to commit suicide.
Michael Tee

[Michael Tee]

<<It has appeared to me for some time that this great naton of ours is slowly but steadily heading in the direction of the god of socialism. If you give the populace an increasing array of social services and incentives, their expectation levels will increase and be thirsty for even more.>>

Well, you better watch it.  If you're not careful, you could end up like the EU, whose economy just surpassed yours this year.  (Just kidding, you guys will NEVER end up like the Europeans.  They're civilized.)

[Rich]

>>Whereas conservatism is a philosophy of active destruction of the social fabric ... <<

Now that's interesting. I've always heard leftist chiming away about how Conservatives aren't progressive enough when it comes to American culture. We're the old stick in the mud. Sorry Mike, but thisis just more make it up as you go along bullshit.

>> ... and international relations of western civilization so that its internal and external enemies can destroy it before it HAS to commit suicide.<<

Once again an odd conclusion considering it's the Conservative position to fight against external enemies. Conservatives have one reply to America's external enemies, Nuts! As for any of Conservatisms internal enemies, those are Americas enemies also. It's they who want to destroy Americas social fabric and turn into something more  like .... (gasp) ... Canada. So again, you're bizarro world scenario's don't hold water.

As for UHC, not gonna happen. Americans rejected Hillarycare, and when we get details on Obama's plan,we'll reject it for the Marxism it is.

[Michael Tee]

<<Now that's interesting. I've always heard leftist chiming away about how Conservatives aren't progressive enough when it comes to American culture. We're the old stick in the mud. Sorry Mike, but thisis just more make it up as you go along bullshit.>>

Maybe you confused the social fabric with American culture, in which case you need to re-read my post.  Otherwise, I can't figure out what point you are trying to make and so can't comment on it at all.

<< . . . it's the Conservative position to fight against external enemies. Conservatives have one reply to America's external enemies, Nuts! >>

My point or part of it was that conservatives CREATE many of America's external enemies out of nothing.  They then blow humungous amounts of money fighting people they never should have had to fight in the first place, which means less spent on infrastructure, especially human infrastructure, resulting in a less productive country, a pathetic foreign exchange rate and the slow decline into Third World status that we see the beginning stages of today.

<<As for any of Conservatisms internal enemies, those are Americas enemies also.>>

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!  Sure they are, Rich, sure they are.  They're all part of a big Commie plot.

<<As for UHC, not gonna happen. Americans rejected Hillarycare, and when we get details on Obama's plan,we'll reject it for the Marxism it is.>>

Keep on dreaming, brother.  It's practically here now.  All you can hope to do now is cripple it from birth so that it won't ever work properly.

[Rich]

>>Maybe you confused the social fabric with American culture, in which case you need to re-read my post.<<

Would you care to explain the difference?

Oh, and please don't call me brother. It sickens me.

[sirs]

Ah, but UHC is coming, it's inevitable.  It will be one of the factors in the coming Democratic victory in November.  Even the homophobic gay marriage votes probably are more representative of those who voted on the initiatives, a small portion of the general public at large, most of whom did not vote on those initiatives.

 

So, your position now is the mainstream is liberal, they just didn't vote enough to validate your claim.  How convenient    

If you really want a measure of popular attitudes liberalizing on gay issues, look at the decriminalization of homosexual acts and the support for civil unions - - not ideal liberal positions but a far cry from the institutional homophobia just one generation before.  The trend is clearly towards liberalization  of gay rights.

The trend is towards greater tolerance & compromise.  Civil unions are a compromise between the hard left and hard right positions, and one that this conservative supports as well.  So sorry to keep blowing these theories of yours, out of the water.

[Michael Tee]

>>Maybe you confused the social fabric with American culture, in which case you need to re-read my post.<<

<<Would you care to explain the difference?>>

The social fabric is what holds the classes and races  of the society together - - fair wages and working conditions keep the wage slaves happy enough to report for work every workday morning, medical care however provided keeps the workforce healthy enough to produce, fair and reasonable property laws keep capital in the country productively employed, racial equity stops race rioting and general mayhem, old age security keeps the elderly from sleeping on the sidewalks, etc.

American culture is how Americans entertain or define themselves, music, film, rock & roll, art, vacations, language, clothing, fashion, grooming, recreation, lifestyle, etc.