Author Topic: Obama's Pastor: "God Damn America"  (Read 17063 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama's Pastor: "God Damn America"
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2008, 02:48:23 PM »
It wouldn't be beneath them, though as I've already referenced, this isn't getting anywhere NEAR the publicity & MSM attention it would, if this were McCain's pastor
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3500
  • Salaires legers. Chars lourds.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama's Pastor: "God Damn America"
« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2008, 02:58:49 PM »
I'm Catholic, we do not have denominations. That is solely a Protestant phenomena. Your last sentence is correct, but theological discussions still have merit. The multiplicity of thought does not render theology useless, nor does it make all Biblical theory equivalent.

And Catholicism is demonination of Christianty.

No it isn't. As I said, denominations are a Protestant phenomena. Catholicism and Orthodoxism are very similar and represented a schism. There is not the wide and very bizarre range of beliefs that encompass Protestantism.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

_JS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3500
  • Salaires legers. Chars lourds.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama's Pastor: "God Damn America"
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2008, 03:00:07 PM »
A bizarre conclusion from A to B,

Bizarre? How so?
It clearly states repeatedly that it should be done "in secret".
How could forced charity through government be "in secret".

What is bizarre is for you to think forcing people to do charity
is somehow what Christ had in mind.

but perhaps 2 Peter 1:20 is something you should read?

Perhaps you should get Matthew down first before urging others
to read what you obviously don't grasp.




If you read the latter you'll know why I'm ignoring your advice. Which is notably not given in a charitable nature.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

_JS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3500
  • Salaires legers. Chars lourds.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama's Pastor: "God Damn America"
« Reply #48 on: March 14, 2008, 03:01:20 PM »
"yes"

So if a man divorces a wife that has turned away from God,
a wife that lives a sinful life, a wife that is a thief,
a wife that abuses his children, a wife that is a crack head
and he remarries, he is committing adultery?


Yes, he must first get his marriage annulled then he may seek another relationship.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama's Pastor: "God Damn America"
« Reply #49 on: March 14, 2008, 03:05:46 PM »

SIRS it is starting to get some traction.
It's all over the news now.
MSNBC & CNBC were talking alot about it this morning.
The Wall Street Journal has big feature on it today.
LA Times has it.
ABC News.
The New York Times


"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama's Pastor: "God Damn America"
« Reply #50 on: March 14, 2008, 03:09:24 PM »
Wright really isn't an issue. he's an opportunity

Yeah sure he isn't an issue.

If Hitler was his pastor I guess it still wouldn't be an issue?

Well we'll see if he is an issue won't we?

===========================================================================
If your grandmother had wheels, she'd be a bicycle.

By being an issue, I mean that listening to some guy in church once a week or whenever does not turn anyone, particularly an educated person like Obama, into some sort of mindless droid zombie.

Of course, if there were a sufficient quantity of yutzes like you in this country, it might be seen as an issue by said yutses.

But it still would have no real bearing on how Obama did his job as president when elected.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama's Pastor: "God Damn America"
« Reply #51 on: March 14, 2008, 03:11:15 PM »
"No it isn't. As I said, denominations are a Protestant phenomena"



Religious denomination

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Major denominations and religions of the world, a religious denomination (also simply denomination) is a subgroup within a religion that operates under a common name, tradition and identity.

The term is frequently used to describe various Christian denominations (for example, Eastern Orthodox, Catholicism, and the many varieties of Protestantism or Restorationism).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_denomination
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama's Pastor: "God Damn America"
« Reply #52 on: March 14, 2008, 03:13:25 PM »
So if a man divorces a wife that has turned away from God,
a wife that lives a sinful life, a wife that is a thief,
a wife that abuses his children, a wife that is a crack head
and he remarries, he is committing adultery?


"Yes, he must first get his marriage annulled then he may seek another relationship"

Annullled by who?

Also where does it say anything about annullment in Matthew?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 03:19:29 PM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama's Pastor: "God Damn America"
« Reply #53 on: March 14, 2008, 03:19:50 PM »
I mean that listening to some guy in church once a week or whenever does not turn anyone, particularly an educated person like Obama, into some sort of mindless droid zombie.

Unless of course, their ideology is on the right, and they're listening to some guy on the radio once a week or whatever.  Then that's exactly what they are, right Xo?



"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama's Pastor: "God Damn America"
« Reply #54 on: March 14, 2008, 03:20:46 PM »
It wouldn't be beneath them, though as I've already referenced, this isn't getting anywhere NEAR the publicity & MSM attention it would, if this were McCain's pastor
---------------------------------------------------------------------\

So what if it were revealed that McCain was actually a species of reptile from beyond Antares?
Would that get as much attention as if Obama were a member of a collective of axolotls from Planet Koozbane?

And what would this prove?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What on Earth is the point of your ridiculous speculation on unreal events and situations?
Why are you wasting so many innocent electrons and blameless pixes on wacko nonexistent theories?

What on Earth is your point?

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Rich

  • Guest
Re: Obama's Pastor: "God Damn America"
« Reply #55 on: March 14, 2008, 03:24:19 PM »
When you choose to attend a church, why do you do it?

Do you do it so you can sit in your pew with your family thinking, "Boy, is this guy a yutz. I can hardly wait to get out of here and explain to my children what a yutz he is." Then do it all over again next week?

No.

Protestants have an advantage in this respect. They can fire a pastor. They can find another church that is more in line with their non-racist beliefs. Or they can start their own church.

But no. Obama dragged his family to that Church for 20 years. He had Wright baptize his children. He contributed money to that church. There can only be one conclusion; he agrees with what the church teaches. It's at least apparent that his wife does, and after being married for 21 years I can assure that if his wife does, he does.

Leftists who are dismissing this or apologizing for it are intellectually dishonest at the least and racist at worst. How can they be racist? Why that's what Black folks do don't ya know. It's not their fault, they don't really mean it. Its just how they are. we shouldn't expect anything else."

No, this man Wright has been a driving force in Obama's development and to deny that is dishonest.

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama's Pastor: "God Damn America"
« Reply #56 on: March 14, 2008, 03:34:52 PM »
So what if it were revealed that McCain was actually a species of reptile from beyond Antares?
Would that get as much attention as if Obama were a member of a collective of axolotls from Planet Koozbane?
And what would this prove?.


It would prove your acute disconnection to current events, and dare I say, reality.       ::)


What on Earth is the point of your ridiculous speculation on unreal events and situations?

Who Obama's spiritual leader and mentor is, is no speculation.  It's real, it's tangible, it's FACTUAL.  And opposed to your nonsensical out-of body response, is relevent to current issues and events


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3500
  • Salaires legers. Chars lourds.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama's Pastor: "God Damn America"
« Reply #57 on: March 14, 2008, 03:39:03 PM »
"No it isn't. As I said, denominations are a Protestant phenomena"



Religious denomination

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Major denominations and religions of the world, a religious denomination (also simply denomination) is a subgroup within a religion that operates under a common name, tradition and identity.

The term is frequently used to describe various Christian denominations (for example, Eastern Orthodox, Catholicism, and the many varieties of Protestantism or Restorationism).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_denomination


Ah, well if Wikipedia says so...
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

_JS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3500
  • Salaires legers. Chars lourds.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama's Pastor: "God Damn America"
« Reply #58 on: March 14, 2008, 03:44:47 PM »
So if a man divorces a wife that has turned away from God,
a wife that lives a sinful life, a wife that is a thief,
a wife that abuses his children, a wife that is a crack head
and he remarries, he is committing adultery?


"Yes, he must first get his marriage annulled then he may seek another relationship"

Annullled by who(m)?

Also where does it say anything about annullment in Matthew?


Annulled by the Church.

If you really want to understand it, I'll endeavor to explain it. If you're just trying to use it in some way, then I'm not going to because it is complicated and often misunderstood.

The bottom line is that yes, if a man or woman divorces and remarries without an annulment then it is adultery.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Obama's Pastor: "God Damn America"
« Reply #59 on: March 14, 2008, 03:44:58 PM »
If you read the latter (2 Peter 1:20) you'll know why I'm ignoring your advice.

Have you ever had a discussion about some Biblical passage or topic in which the person with whom you were speaking abruptly ended the conversation with the words ?That?s just your interpretation?? Or maybe they said ?Well, that?s just your opinion? or ?You?ve got your opinion on that, and I?ve got mine.? If you have talked to others about the Bible much at all, odds are good you have had such things said to you, perhaps often. The pluralistic religious landscape in our country is quite full of this concept.

Have you ever used 2 Peter 1:20 as a reply to that? Peter said ?But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation.? Some people think this statement by Peter is the perfect retort to ?that?s just your interpretation.? On the surface it appears that Peter is saying that there is no such thing as ?your interpretation? or ?my interpretation? of the Bible, there?s just what the Bible says and that?s that. No one, the passage says, is allowed the comfort of a private, personal interpretation of the Bible. The Bible is not to be read in such a way that it is made to conform to our opinions and assumptions; instead, we must conform to what it says.

But is that really what 2 Peter 1:20 is saying? Let?s take a closer look at this whole business.

Let?s begin with the more general matter of different interpretations. To some people, ?interpretation? is actually a bad word because it has unnecessarily become associated with subjectivism and the pluralistic mentality which asserts that the Bible is basically unintelligible, that opinions (interpretations) are all we can hope to have when it comes to the Bible and religious matters, and that since the Bible is unintelligible in the first place, all opinions (interpretations) about what the Bible means are equally valid. Some interpretations of the Bible may have such an attitude behind them, but the fact is that we cannot escape the business of interpreting the Bible. Even those who claim that all they do is let the Bible speak for themselves engage in an interpretive process (although they are probably unaware of it themselves).

Is the Bible basically unintelligible? Not at all. The Bible is eminently understandable. It makes this very claim for itself (Eph 3:4). But the question everyone who picks up a Bible eventually faces (whether they address it explicitly or not) is: what does this mean? The moment we begin to inquire about the meaning of any part of the Bible, or even of the Bible as a whole, we have asked the first question in the process of interpretation. And when we begin to say ?I think the Bible means this? or ?I think this passage is saying that,? we have produced an interpretation, like it or not.

Engaging in the process of interpretation is not an evil thing. I will reassert that everyone who picks up a Bible and wonders to any degree what the text means is already involved in an interpretive process. Anyone who has any opinion about what the Bible teaches has arrived at an interpretation of the Bible. The real question is: is this the right interpretation? Is my interpretation correct? Is the interpretation at which I have arrived the one that makes the very best sense of what is written? Does the interpretation I have produced fit the Biblical data without distorting it in any way (that is, without twisting words, without leaving data out, without reading foreign ideas into it, etc.)?

Consider, if you will, that the interpretation of the Hebrew Scriptures was one of the key issues upon which Christianity was founded. The early Christians, who had learned from Jesus himself, believed and taught that the Hebrew Scriptures spoke of the demise of the Levitical sacrificial system centered in the tabernacle and temple, that those Scriptures predicted the coming of Jesus of Nazareth into the world, that they predicted his death, burial and resurrection, and that they spoke of the resurrected Jesus as the king over God?s kingdom. Many of the Jews disagreed with that vehemently. That is, one of the greatest differences between Judaism and Christianity was their interpretation of the Hebrew Scriptures. Christianity is itself an interpretation of those Scriptures, and it claims to be the right interpretation.

Interpretation is unavoidable when handling the Bible, and the early Christians themselves were interpreters (whose interpretation was viewed as radical by the Jews) of the Jewish Scriptures. Peter was not, therefore, condemning interpretation wholesale in 2 Peter 1:20. Read Peter?s letters and what you will see there is an interpretation of the life of Christ. Because Peter was an apostle guided by the Holy Spirit, we can be assured that his interpretation of the story of Jesus was correct. But it was an interpretation nonetheless.

So what does 2 Peter 1:20 mean (note that this is itself an interpretive question!)? Consider the context. Peter is there talking about the prophets of Old Testament times. This is clear from verse 19, in which Peter says ?we have the prophetic word made more sure.? What Peter means is that Jesus was the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies, and Peter himself was an eyewitness to this very fact. It was not that Peter had heard that Jesus fulfilled prophecies, but that Peter knew it from his own experience with Jesus.

How were the prophets of old able to predict with such astonishing clarity and accuracy the things about Jesus? Peter tells us plainly in verse 21: ?no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.? The Spirit of God revealed these things to them. They were not making guesses about the Messiah. In fact, they were not even making educated guesses. What they predicted was not a matter of them arriving at some interpretation of events they saw in their own day. This is what Peter means when he says ?no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation.?

For example, the prophet Isaiah predicted the Babylonian captivity of Judah at a time when Babylon was not a military or political threat to anyone, nor was their any indication they would be some time later. In Isaiah?s time the Assyrians were waging wars of conquest over all of the Ancient Near East. If Isaiah had been guessing, or interpreting, what would happen to Judah based on the things that were going on around him, he would have predicted that the Assyrians would take the kingdom of Judah into captivity. But he did not. He accurately predicted that the Babylonians would do that, and that is exactly how it unfolded in history. This is because Isaiah was not interpreting the events of his day, looking for patterns in current events, as he spoke about the future of Judah. What he said about Judah he said from the Holy Spirit of God.

2 Peter 1:20, then, is about the prophets and how they made their predictions. It is not about the more general issue of interpreting the Bible. 2 Peter 1:10 is not about whether anyone must or can interpret the Bible.

So the next time someone says ?that?s just your interpretation,? instead of quoting 2 Peter 1:20 to them, invite them to investigate which interpretation (understanding, or reading) of the Bible is the right one.

http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-2-peter-1-20(3).htm
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987