Obama's Dimestore "Mien Kampf"

[fatman]

Dont you think Obama will be nominated? If not, why?

I think that it's too early to say yet.  Everyone has this idea that Obama is going to take it, but if Hillary can take a couple of the remaining states (and it looks like she'll probably take PA) she'll hang on tighter.  The Clintons haven't had to suffer defeat, I doubt that they're going to do so graciously.

At a brokered convention, who knows what would happen?

Even the delegates themselves probably couldn't say.

[Rich]

>>Except no one was bashing Christians. Once again, Rich is victorious against a strawman.<<

Right. Right. Associating Hitler with Christianity doesn't reflect on Christianity in a negative way.

Right.

 

[sirs]

Precisely

[_JS]

No one here is bashing Christians, Christianity, and most certainly not Christ.

I just do not know how to get that through to either of you.

Associating Fascism or Nazism with Christianity was not done by anyone here, it was done in historical reality. What do you wish to do, bury your head in the ground like an ostrich?

There were Christians who resisted the Fascists, but there were also those who supported and yes, helped build Fascism in Europe (and elsewhere). I don't understand how denying an historical fact makes it not exist.

Do you think the Nazis invented the idea of rounding up Jews and putting them in ghettoes? Do you think they invented the idea of forcing Jews to wear yellow as a mark of shame and easy identification? No. These were ideas invented by the states and churches of Europe - Protestant and Catholic. Positive Christianity was not invented by the Nazis either. It came from late 19th century and early 20th century Christian theologists, mostly Protestants. The name "positive" came from their notion that the Christianity of their day did not teach enough about Christ as a fighter and warrior, but overly emphasized (from their view) His peaceful and passive aspects.

None of this was new or invented by the Fascists. Y'all keep denying it because you think that by doing so it "helps" Christianity. When does denying the truth help?

This is interesting because the same problem resides in Nationalism. People take great offense and quickly deny that their country could be responsible for horrible actions. Or, they are quick to justify them. Why? Think of the Holocaust deniers. Do they help or hurt Germany as a nation? I don't think they help at all. Denying reality only leads to future irresponsibility.

[sirs]

And I'm not sure how we're ever going to get thru to you and Prince....that the insidious connecting Christianity to Hitler & Nazism, regardless of the "historical fact" of their being Christian influences, that they were obviously perverted, (in much the same way militant Islam perverts the lessons of the Koran & Islam) by Hitler & Company.

So, to be honest, I really have no idea what your goal here is, in repeating references of Christianity with Hitler.  I could guess, but I might not be wrong

[_JS]

And I'm not sure how we're ever going to get thru to you and Prince....that the insidious connecting Christianity to Hitler & Nazism, regardless of the "historical fact" of their being Christian influences, that they were obviously perverted, (in much the same way militant Islam perverts the lessons of the Koran & Islam) by Hitler & Company.

So, to be honest, I really have no idea what your goal here is, in repeating references of Christianity with Hitler.  I could guess, but I might not be wrong

What "insidious connecting?"

[sirs]

And I'm not sure how we're ever going to get thru to you and Prince....that the insidious connecting Christianity to Hitler & Nazism, regardless of the "historical fact" of their being Christian influences, that they were obviously perverted, (in much the same way militant Islam perverts the lessons of the Koran & Islam) by Hitler & Company.

So, to be honest, I really have no idea what your goal here is, in repeating references of Christianity with Hitler.  I could guess, but I might not be wrong

What "insidious connecting?"

The repeating over and over and over and over again of the Christian "influences" & "aspects" Hitler and his Nazi Regime had, and the bringing about of Fascism.  THAT insidious connecting. 

I mean, we could discuss the "historical facts & trends" of Hillary's appearance, especially those eyes when she becomes a tad hysterical.  That wouldn't be "bashing" in your book, because it's simply discussing historical facts, right?

[Rich]

>>I think that it's too early to say yet.  Everyone has this idea that Obama is going to take it, but if Hillary can take a couple of the remaining states (and it looks like she'll probably take PA) she'll hang on tighter.  The Clintons haven't had to suffer defeat, I doubt that they're going to do so graciously.<<

She would have to win REALLY big in the remaining contests, so to assume Obama will be the nominee, which I did, isn't any different form what the majority of people, who are supposed to know these things, are saying. So do you sill feel this way when I say Obama will be the nominee; "But hey, don't let those pesky little things called facts spoil your day," or were you just being an insufferable little prick?

Hmm?

[_JS]

And I'm not sure how we're ever going to get thru to you and Prince....that the insidious connecting Christianity to Hitler & Nazism, regardless of the "historical fact" of their being Christian influences, that they were obviously perverted, (in much the same way militant Islam perverts the lessons of the Koran & Islam) by Hitler & Company.

So, to be honest, I really have no idea what your goal here is, in repeating references of Christianity with Hitler.  I could guess, but I might not be wrong

What "insidious connecting?"

The repeating over and over and over and over again of the Christian "influences" & "aspects" Hitler and his Nazi Regime had, and the bringing about of Fascism.  THAT insidious connecting. 

I mean, we could discuss the "historical facts & trends" of Hillary's appearance, especially those eyes when she becomes a tad hysterical.  That wouldn't be "bashing" in your book, because it's simply discussing historical facts, right?

So you are denying that intellectual movements within Christianity had anything to do with the rise of Fascism? Is that what you are saying?

You think that I'm making these "insidious connections" with some evil agenda of my own, which would be?

[Rich]

>>THAT insidious connecting.<<

Remember, these are folks who all went into little tizzies over discussing fascisms influence on modern liberalism. There was none right? And to even discuss it made you a monster. Remember? But Christianity and Hitler is a historical fact and if you don't believe that you're just stupid.

Right.

 

[_JS]

>>THAT insidious connecting.<<

Remember, these are folks who all went into little tizzies over discussing fascisms influence on modern liberalism. There was none right? And to even discuss it made you a monster. Remember? But Christianity and Hitler is a historical fact and if you don't believe that you're just stupid.

Right.

 

 

When did I become plural or a liberal?

If you don't like Hitler or Mussolini, what about Francisco Franco? Are you and Sirs going to deny his ties to Christianity as well?

[sirs]

So you are denying that intellectual movements within Christianity had anything to do with the rise of Fascism? Is that what you are saying?

NOOOOO, for crying out loud.  You can pervert Christianity all you want to bring rise to a madman like Hitler.  And i've said Yes, there are those who have twisted Christianity to help bring about Fascism.  What part of that concession do you keep missing??

You think that I'm making these "insidious connections" with some evil agenda of my own, which would be?

I hope it's not as transparent as it seems

[_JS]

So you are denying that intellectual movements within Christianity had anything to do with the rise of Fascism? Is that what you are saying?

NOOOOO, for crying out loud.  You can pervert Christianity all you want to bring rise to a madman like Hitler.  And i've said Yes, there are those who have twisted Christianity to help bring about Fascism.  What part of that concession do you keep missing??

Sheesh Sirs, that's all I've been trying to point out.

The issue is that Christian Nationalism was a method of gaining support from everyday people in a Christian country to support Fascism. That is it. I was trying to show that Fascism could arise in any nation and that it wasn't simply specific to those countries that adopted it due to their time and situation in history.

Never was I attempting to claim that Christian Nationalism or Positive Christianity was anything that Jesus would have taught! Unfortunately, there were dangerous elements of thought (which is no different than today) and people were quick to justify those thoughts. Racial superiority was one of them and as I've explained, this was a thought that Southern churches defended (even with scripture) for another three decades after WWII. Nationalism was and is another of those ideas where it was taken to a divine level.

Gah, I hope that clarifies things somewhat.

[Rich]

Ties to Christianity ... yes, I'll deny it, because nothing they said or did was even remotely Christian.

Saying Hitler or Mussolini's motivations were Christian in nature would be like saying Reverend Wright's motivation's are Christian, or Bill Clinton's motivations are Christian. They can call themselves whatever they want, and you can believe them, but the reality of it is they weren't Christian, what they preached wasn't Christian, therefore there was no Christian influence.

[_JS]

Ties to Christianity ... yes, I'll deny it, because nothing they said or did was even remotely Christian.

Saying Hitler or Mussolini's motivations were Christian in nature would be like saying Reverend Wright's motivation's are Christian, or Bill Clinton's motivations are Christian. They can call themselves whatever they want, and you can believe them, but the reality of it is they weren't Christian, what they preached wasn't Christian, therefore there was no Christian influence.

Another strawman.

No one here has said that "Hitler's or Mussolini's motivations were Christian in nature." I have no idea who you are arguing with.