I guess the evidence is in.

[Michael Tee]

<< . . .  we're able to torpedo each and every one of those "Bush lied us into war" diatribes.  Been doing it each and every time it's tried>>

In your dreams, sirs

<<which is why we're left to folks like you now avoiding such like the plague and simply claim It's already been abundantly proven to the majority of the American people, sirs.  >>

Uh, I was actually referring to the polls, sirs.  The people now know they were lied to.

<<Declare victory & hit enter I believe is the term used for that tactic>>

No, that was your "torpedo" claim. 

[sirs]

<< . . .  we're able to torpedo each and every one of those "Bush lied us into war" diatribes.  Been doing it each and every time it's tried>>

In your dreams, sirs

No, that would be in this reality, I'm afraid.  Don't believe me......try it again & watch.  Throw out your BEST Bush lied us into war claim, and how it's a supposed verifiable lie.  Come on, we have people watching and waiting to see how this is suppsedly me declaring victory and hitting enter.  Ball in your court

[Michael Tee]

<<No, that would be in this reality, I'm afraid.  Don't believe me......try it again & watch.  Throw out your BEST Bush lied us into war claim, and how it's a supposed verifiable lie.  Come on, we have people watching and waiting to see how this is suppsedly me declaring victory and hitting enter.  Ball in your court>>

Well, not word for word, but "We know Saddam has failed to account for his WMD and the situation is so urgent we can't wait any more.  We have to invade because we know he has WMD."  Big fucking lie.

[Plane]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/05/haggard.allegations/index.html


"In the letter read Sunday, Haggard took responsibility for his actions, saying "I am guilty of sexual immorality" and noted that "the things I did opened the door for additional allegations."

He asked the congregation to also forgive his accuser, who Haggard said has revealed "the deception ... that was in my life."

In a separate letter from Haggard's wife, also read by Stockstill, Gayle Haggard said while her heart is broken, she remains "committed to him until death do us part."

An overflow congregation responded to the announcement with a standing ovation.

Haggard, 50, and his wife have five children."

[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

Well , that is pretty convincing.

This may be a good canadate for cureing Homosexuality.

Putting a rubber band on his wrist and telling him to administer a snap to himself every time he has an inappropriate craveing.


Snap Snap Snap Snap Snap Snap Snap Sanp......

[Plane]

<<No, that would be in this reality, I'm afraid.  Don't believe me......try it again & watch.  Throw out your BEST Bush lied us into war claim, and how it's a supposed verifiable lie.  Come on, we have people watching and waiting to see how this is suppsedly me declaring victory and hitting enter.  Ball in your court>>

Well, not word for word, but "We know Saddam has failed to account for his WMD and the situation is so urgent we can't wait any more.  We have to invade because we know he has WMD."  Big fucking lie.

This was a lie when Bush told it ? so what was it when all the others told it?

This is the weakest of all the potential lies you could have chosen to defend , this one is the one that has been illuminated the most and is most clearly not a lie.

Unless you want to define "lie" in some way that is new.

[sirs]

Well, not word for word, but "We know Saddam has failed to account for his WMD and the situation is so urgent we can't wait any more.  We have to invade because we know he has WMD."  Big fucking lie.

This was a lie when Bush told it ? so what was it when all the others told it?

This is the weakest of all the potential lies you could have chosen to defend , this one is the one that has been illuminated the most and is most clearly not a lie.

Unless you want to define "lie" in some way that is new.

No Plane, apparently that's "the best" Tee (and anyone else on the left for that matter) can do, since that was the initial challenge <Throw out your BEST Bush lied us into war claim, and how it's a supposed verifiable lie>

[Plane]

Should they change the subject then?

How about that big fish?

[sirs]

Should they change the subject then?  How about that big fish?

Naaa, it's what has given them some traction at this point, and very likely why the polls reflect it.  The mantra has been applied so often and left so consistently unchallenged by the mainscream media when made, that folks like Tee can simply declare victory (Bush lied us into war), and hit enter (not be required to actually substantiate the claim

[domer]

Bush didn't "lie"; rather, he was stupid and stubborn, reckless and negligent ... which is not why he got elected.

[sirs]

Bush didn't "lie"; rather, he was stupid and stubborn, reckless and negligent ... which is not why he got elected.

Well, that's 1 opinion.  Another is that he demonstrated incredible leadership in the face of a new form of enemy, put backbone back into the word of the U.S, its military, its credibility to its allies.  Took out 2 oppressive regimes while the rest of the Global community sat and did squat.  But yes, he did fail to fully appreciate the type of insurgent resistance they could come in contact with once Saddam was taken out, and like EVERY war, mistakes were made both in post-Saddam planning, and contingency planning for when other plans were failing to accomplish their goals.  So yes, in that case, I can vouch for the stubborness factor & borderline negligence

And FYI, one of the functions, if not the PRIMARY fuction, as President of the U.S. is to be commander and chief of its military, protecting this country from enemies both foreign & domestic.  Perhaps he didn't campaign specifically on such (thus didn't get elected for such), but as my president, I put more credence into that responsibility, vs how many bills he can sign into law

[Plane]

Bush didn't "lie"; rather, he was stupid and stubborn, reckless and negligent ... which is not why he got elected.

I can go along with this.

[Michael Tee]

<<This was a lie [the WMD lie] when Bush told it ? so what was it when all the others told it?>>

If they were in his administration, it was his lie, part of the campaign of lies that he constructed to invade Iraq.  Whether they were lying too or just fools, depends on how close to the top they were.  The big guys all must have known it was a lie and must have had a hand in crafting the lie, the small fry were either in on the lie or didn't give a shit if it was true or not.

<<This is the weakest of all the potential lies you could have chosen to defend , this one is the one that has been illuminated the most and is most clearly not a lie.>>

On the contrary, I think it's the biggest lie and obviously the one with the most disastrous consequences.

<<Unless you want to define "lie" in some way that is new.>>

No, I'd say it's either saying something you know for a fact is untrue, or saying that you know it's true when you really don't know if it is or isn't.  There's a point where ignorance shades into lying when you claim more certainty than the lie warrants - - you are manipulating people with a statement that may or may not be true, so the lie is not necessarily what you are alleging but in deceiving others into believing that what you are saying has to be true when you yourself don't really know if it's true or not.

[Plane]

Why do you accept the notion that President Bush spoke deceptively about the WMD in Iraq?

[Michael Tee]

<<The mantra [that Bush lied the country into war] has been applied so often and left so consistently unchallenged by the mainscream media when made, that folks like Tee can simply declare victory (Bush lied us into war), and hit enter (not be required to actually substantiate the claim>>

See, that's where all your lies become undone.  Because Bush lied to the whole country.  People remember the weapons of mass destruction.  That wasn't a part of the language till Bush and his gang made it a part of the language.  And they remember the allegations that Saddam was hiding weapons of mass destruction, he did not account for them, so he must still have them.  

They will remember Condoleeza Rice telling them that they couldn't keep looking for the smoking gun till the smoking gun became a mushroom cloud.  People who are dumb enough to be fooled by that kind of argument are dumb enough to be scared by it.  And people remember when they are scared.  They remember who scared them and how.

So when you come out with this shit, it never happened, Bush never tried to scare America into supporting an invasion, they KNOW you are lying because they remember being scared by those very lines.  So telling them it never happened is just compounding the lie.

I find that this habitual lying is probably the Achilles heel of the Republican Party.  They HAVE to lie because they are the party of the rich and they need the votes of the poor.  If you tell the poor the real truth (we're here to make our friends richer and you poorer) it will not get them elected.  But the lies should be confined to fields they have more control over, where it's much harder to understand the subject matter, so that it's harder to prove them liars.  When they start to lie over stuff like weapons of mass destruction or "We're gonna be greeted as liberators," they are lying about something they ultimately cannot control.  BAD policy.  But they seem to have this magical belief that they can keep repeating something - - "We are making great progress in Iraq," "There are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq" and it will BECOME true over time.  But it never does.

[Plane]

You have skipped a step.



I do not see yet any indication that President Bush has intentionally decevied anybody , especially not on the subject of WMD.