Author Topic: Obama perfect?  (Read 58603 times)

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BT

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #165 on: July 04, 2008, 12:49:06 AM »
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This is getting to be a contest between your lack of knowledge of the situation and the your need to argue.

This is a contest between fact and biased opinion.

The real complaint is that at least one test a year tests teachers as well as students.

Amianthus

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #166 on: July 04, 2008, 12:50:20 AM »
Well, then there is a severe miscommunication between what you HAVE googled and the truth.

again, you claim to know, based on your one time shot on this Ami, but you are not living in my world.

I claim to know based on having read the act. Have you done so yet?

The video that I posted with Obama's complete and honorable knowledge on the subject speaks volumns.

His "honorable knowledge" apparently does not always jive with reality. Calling it "unfunded" was but one of his untruths.

Even McCain has admitted the act is in need of change.

I never said it was perfect, or couldn't be improved. But Obama's and your claims are far from truth.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Amianthus

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #167 on: July 04, 2008, 12:52:31 AM »
You and BT are not in the business of politicians or educators.

BT is a politician. He's up for re-election in 2009. Did you miss that part of the discussion? Regardless, I think he's not gonna count on the Albuquerque vote.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Cynthia

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #168 on: July 04, 2008, 12:53:28 AM »
Well, then there is a severe miscommunication between what you HAVE googled and the truth.

again, you claim to know, based on your one time shot on this Ami, but you are not living in my world.

I claim to know based on having read the act. Have you done so yet?

The video that I posted with Obama's complete and honorable knowledge on the subject speaks volumns.

His "honorable knowledge" apparently does not always jive with reality. Calling it "unfunded" was but one of his untruths.

Even McCain has admitted the act is in need of change.

I never said it was perfect, or couldn't be improved. But Obama's and your claims are far from truth.

Obama has read the act and he has found the loopholes that you have not found. That's reality, Ami.


Cynthia

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #169 on: July 04, 2008, 12:54:27 AM »
You and BT are not in the business of politicians or educators.

BT is a politician. He's up for re-election in 2009. Did you miss that part of the discussion? Regardless, I think he's not gonna count on the Albuquerque vote.

LOL. Yes, I remember hearing about that.

But,he's not a presidential candidate.

BT

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #170 on: July 04, 2008, 01:05:27 AM »
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Obama has read the act and he has found the loopholes that you have not found

How could he have read the act yet mistate facts about it? Is that honorable?

Amianthus

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #171 on: July 04, 2008, 01:06:58 AM »
Obama has read the act and he has found the loopholes that you have not found. That's reality, Ami.

Then perhaps he could elucidate. Calling it "unfunded" is plainly not true. Saying that the act punishes schools that need improvement is not true.

So, what are the loopholes that he found?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Cynthia

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #172 on: July 04, 2008, 01:15:27 AM »
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Obama has read the act and he has found the loopholes that you have not found

How could he have read the act yet mistate facts about it? Is that honorable?

He is willing to see the loopholes, Bill, I really do believe he will find a better way to help children get a well rounded PUBLIC educaiton.

by the way, It occured to me that you were in some political field..city counsel or something like that. LOL. I had forgotten that you are IN POLITICS. d'oh, but I still maintain that you are not a politician for the people in this case, nor do you have any experience with what children are experiencing in the public schools today. That's my observation about you, Bt. with all due respect.

Test scores not enough
Mark D. Winek - Superior, Wis.

I applaud all attempts to raise math and reading scores and to narrow minority achievement gaps. Even so, when teachers are forced to spend all their efforts on raising lower-achieving students' grades, what happens to the attention that higher-achieving ones need to excel?

According to the American Federation of Teachers, since the law's enactment, the Bush administration has underfunded NCLB by $70.9 billion. So how has the education system achieved the gains in testing? By cutting classes, such as foreign languages, and services. Teachers are forced to teach to the lowest common denominator and for the goal of performing well on a test.

American life today is a series of tests from birth to death. Does teaching to a test advance U.S. society in today's global marketplace? NCLB might help raise the scores of lower-achieving students, but it also helps create a nation of mediocrity.


http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2008/07/nclbs-gauge-of.html
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 01:17:02 AM by Cynthia »

BT

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #173 on: July 04, 2008, 01:32:23 AM »
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According to the American Federation of Teachers, since the law's enactment, the Bush administration has underfunded NCLB by $70.9 billion.

How so? What programs are underfunded. Specifics would be nice. Say there is a shortage of books? Is NCLB budgeted to fund books? Or is that the usual strawman?

Quote
Teachers are forced to teach to the lowest common denominator and for the goal of performing well on a test.

Is that what you do?




Plane

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #174 on: July 04, 2008, 02:24:18 AM »
What is wrong with making the assumption that Senator Obama would make the NCLB situation much worse?




Answer , the same thing that is wrong with assuming that Senator Obama will make the NCLB situation much better.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #175 on: July 04, 2008, 10:56:56 AM »
There is no real way to encourage original thought using standardized multiple choice exams.

No method of testing encourages cheating like multiple choice exams.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #176 on: July 04, 2008, 11:32:46 AM »
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There is no real way to encourage original thought using standardized multiple choice exams.

No method of testing encourages cheating like multiple choice exams.

NCLB doesn't design the tests. The states do.


Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #177 on: July 04, 2008, 01:20:11 PM »
There is no real way to encourage original thought using standardized multiple choice exams.

No method of testing encourages cheating like multiple choice exams.

NCLB doesn't design the tests. The states do.

===================================
Every test in every state is a multiple choice. There is no chance that this will change, as they need a test that can be graded by machine.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Cynthia

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #178 on: July 04, 2008, 02:28:51 PM »
Quote
According to the American Federation of Teachers, since the law's enactment, the Bush administration has underfunded NCLB by $70.9 billion.

How so? What programs are underfunded. Specifics would be nice. Say there is a shortage of books? Is NCLB budgeted to fund books? Or is that the usual strawman?

Quote
Teachers are forced to teach to the lowest common denominator and for the goal of performing well on a test.

Is that what you do?






How so? What programs are underfunded. Specifics would be nice. Say there is a shortage of books? Is NCLB budgeted to fund books? Or is that the usual strawman?


Well, specifics will come out when Obama cleans house, Bt.


Is that what you do?
We are pressured now to raise test scores. It's not the system of the past.  I might add.....we are pressured to make %. Daily, weekly, and monthly. Then we are "pressured" to make those %'s each trimester. The very tests we give are not spelled out in the NCLB act, but they are a result of the 'encouragement' if you will, of the act itself.


Our district has mandated what and how we are to teach and assess children both in reading and math. Teaching has become a one size fits all nightmare. Why? Somewhere in that loophole of an act there lies your answer. Obama knows is, and now I see first hand that there are teachers in the country who see that this NCLB act is a complete rip off for kids. I live it!

Reading;  In our district,  we are mandated to teach reading (and math) using a scripted program for 90 minutes a day- to all students at the same time no matter the child?s individual reading level. K-5. Kindergarten? Be darned early childhood education. Those ?kinders? sit for 90 minutes chanting letters! Why? we demand that they read! But, at what cost? Same for the other grades. If a child can not read at grade level, we have to give them a quick bite instruction and assess them using "grade level" tests.
Again, that's not what used to be the case. We spent time on all children. We taught them at their level, according to how they learn, methodology was supreme. Now, it's one size fits all...brought to you by Houghton Mifflin or Harcort Brace. That is a direct result of the reading first grant, which comes from the NCLB ACT.


We used to have the time to teach the individual child at his/her level (differentiated instruction) as well as assess students in order to drive instruction. Currently, we are ?mandated? to teach these specific research-based basal program using their script (a map of sorts). The worst part of these state mandates (offspring of Fed mandates) is that we are given VERY little time for differentiated instruction. Money would be well spent on fixing this particular problem.

We test so frequently that there is no time to teach. Scores, scores, and higher scores. The pressure comes from the ACT, BT. Children are falling farther behind. I believe that the punitive actions are doing more harm that good. Children are losing out on so much in terms of receiving well rounded education.

So, when Obama is president, I have hope that he will NOT ignore this problem. 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 02:31:01 PM by Cynthia »

sirs

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #179 on: July 04, 2008, 02:38:17 PM »
What programs are underfunded. Specifics would be nice. Say there is a shortage of books? Is NCLB budgeted to fund books? Or is that the usual strawman?

Well, specifics will come out when Obama cleans house, Bt.

oy, how convenient.  With all due respect Cynthia, that's pretty weak.  You seemed to be full of accusations, mostly aimed at this administration, but when taxed to support such accusations, amid all the facts to the contrary....well.....we just have to wait, Obama will set us straight?  Might make for a nice bumper sticker, but sure does nothing to help convince folks that question his severe lack judgement & leadership ability to consider rethinking their positions, especially when it's been shown how factually wrong he is on many of his claims


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle