You're President, and you can control Congress

[Xavier_Onassis]

But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."


Private property had not been abolished among the Christians. People who sold what they owned did so by choice, not because the choice was removed from them. Even Ananias was not punished for keeping part of his profit, but for lying about having given all.

Sounds like the Clinton impeachment, doesn't it? Can a person actually lie to God (or any omniscient being)? Think about it.

Do you suppose Ananias is in Heaven or Hell these days?

[Universe Prince]

Can a person actually lie to God (or any omniscient being)? Think about it.

Can a person say something untrue to God? I do not see why not.

Do you suppose Ananias is in Heaven or Hell these days?

I will not presume to guess.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Can a person say something untrue to God? I do not see why not.

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First, there is the problem that God might well not be in existence. He might have died or left the building. Ypu know, like Elvis.

Second, there is the problem that God actually listens or understands something said to him. There is the possibility that the Big Bang was so really big a bang that he is deaf.

Third, if we suppose that Ananias was devout enough to sell some of his stuff (I think the word 'profit' is incorrectly used for at least some of the sale of his assets), then he should be sufficiently clever to also believe that lying to an omniscient, omnipotent being is essentially futile. Such a being , like Sanata Claus, "knows when you are sleeping, knows when you're awake, knows when you've been bad or good, so be good, for goodness' sake" I find it somewhat strange that God himself did not point this out to him, rather than relying on some mortal to do so.

Ananais seems to be a rather negative figure in the Scripture: no one names their kid "Ananais", do they?
I would think that if he had been forgiven, this would have been mentioned.

[Universe Prince]

First, there is the problem that God might well not be in existence. He might have died or left the building. Ypu know, like Elvis.

To speak of lying to God carries the underlying premise that God exists.

Second, there is the problem that God actually listens or understands something said to him. There is the possibility that the Big Bang was so really big a bang that he is deaf.

Again, that God does in fact understand is an underlying, understood premise.

Third, if we suppose that Ananias was devout enough to sell some of his stuff (I think the word 'profit' is incorrectly used for at least some of the sale of his assets), then he should be sufficiently clever to also believe that lying to an omniscient, omnipotent being is essentially futile. Such a being , like Sanata Claus, "knows when you are sleeping, knows when you're awake, knows when you've been bad or good, so be good, for goodness' sake" I find it somewhat strange that God himself did not point this out to him, rather than relying on some mortal to do so.

Lots of people should be sufficiently clever to believe/understand a number of things, but that does not mean that they do. And to be fair, Ananias, the scripture makes clear, thought he was lying to the church rather than to God. Many, many people even today do not understand that issue. Of course, they don't die, but then they do not end up talking to Peter the Apostle.

Ananais seems to be a rather negative figure in the Scripture: no one names their kid "Ananais", do they?
I would think that if he had been forgiven, this would have been mentioned.

There are a great many things scripture does not mention. Whether Ananias and his wife ended up in heaven is one of them. Seems to me, that isn't relevant to the story.

[sirs]

And pray tell, was Christ addressing individuals here? It sure does not sound that way to me.

That the parable speaks of groups of individuals does not mean the parable is not about individual responsibility....Private property had not been abolished among the Christians. Those who owned property would sell them. They benefited from having property to sell. And they voluntarily did this.  No one was forced to do so, nor was there a mandate from the apostles that all Christians must do so...People who sold what they owned did so by choice, not because the choice was removed from them. Even Ananias was not punished for keeping part of his profit, but for lying about having given all

Amen

[Xavier_Onassis]

There are a great many things scripture does not mention. Whether Ananias and his wife ended up in heaven is one of them. Seems to me, that isn't relevant to the story.

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I would say that it should be a matter of interest to any Deity who felt that such lying was worth making an example over.

Why pick on the poor guy's wife?

It is also a tad strange that the gist of this seems to be that to refuse to sell all your stuff and give it to the Church is acceptable, as is selling all of it and giving it to the Church. But giving SOME of it away and giving it to the Church and lying about it is a no-no.

A Demiurge would do well to make an example of such a person to prevent other such travesties, I think.

[Universe Prince]

I would say that it should be a matter of interest to any Deity who felt that such lying was worth making an example over.

Feel free to take that up with God any time you like.