The Truth, the Whole Truth And. . .

[fatman]

Depends on your meaning of good.  Definitely more than I had before, but less than what I really want to play well.  How's your playing coming?

[richpo64]

I'm coming along pretty good I guess. I'm learning a lot of chords, but I'm not much of a soloist. My teacher was Tim Russerts brother-in law. He played at russert funeral. Here's a youtube:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzvwHNLe6dk[/youtube]

[Michael Tee]

<<While I wouldn't qualify this as a major problem, I wouldn't say it's the least either.  I am in agreement with you though that there are larger issues of war and the economy, but not everyone agrees on what more important and what's less.>>

When a high-school kid is denied equal protection of the laws, bullied, assaulted and generally treated as a second-class citizen, IMHO that is a much greater problem then whether the Iraqis get to vote for their leaders or exist under a dictatorship like everyone else in the Middle East.  It's actually a bigger issue than whether Harry and Sally get to keep their home or lose it to the mortgagee.

Civil rights are the be-all and end-all of the American political entity.  It is absurd and outrageous that the rights of high-school students, gay-headed families and others take a back seat to the right of Iraqis to vote.  A more screwed-up system of priorities is hard to imagine.  The victims of homophobia are American citizens.  Same as the black victims of white racism.  I hope when Obama assumes office, REAL CHANGE means real change.  Means that the efforts to build a puppet government in Iraq to steal their oil will no longer be able to be masked by phony cover-up motives such as "We are building democracy" because the answer will be "Who gives a shit, pull the plug NOW on the whole thing and start focusing on American people and American problems."

[Michael Tee]

<<No way this bastard would have the balls to say this shit to a live person. >>

Of course not.  I'm way too polite.

<<I'd love to see what would happen.>>

What do you THINK would happen?

[Plane]

It does not mean putting up with what you like , it means allowing what you do not like.

In proper terms are you actually tolerant?

Are you?  I think that I'm pretty tolerant, though no doubt some would disagree.  I try to see an opposing view, even if it conflicts morally or politically with my own.  But it seems that there are many who are loathe to entertain the thought, much less make any sort of compromise to resolve the issue.

Eh , ...

Just because you don't fly off the handle on occasions such as this , you are better than most.

There is definately a line crossed when Homosexuality is presented as a normality to children young enough that it is quite possible that they have never been told about sex at all yet.

Children should be off limits for the government to improve this way , this is a discussion appropriate for adults , but children are defenseless against it.

Historical examples of governmental success at indoctranateing children includes Hitler youth no less often than any positive development , a bright line should be drawn on this side of recruiting.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Historical examples of governmental success at indoctranateing children includes Hitler youth no less often than any positive development , a bright line should be drawn on this side of recruiting.

What do you mean? That Hitler Youth indoctrinated childen to make them homosexuals? What do you mean by a "bright line"?

[richpo64]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTm5rp8r6fE[/youtube]

[_JS]

It is a fact that every sort of person has become a parent at one time or another , this absolves every sort of problem ?


I have no idea what you feel you have a right to object to.

Imagine...
Speaker one..
"I am a bank robbing , drug smuggleing , evoloutiong teaching, slave owning ,Satan worshiping , gay , tax avoiding, draft dodgeing , Communist , Klansman , running for congress."

JS_ " I would take issue with you on one or two of those....."

Speaker one...
" And I am a parent."

JS_ " Oh well then , Ok."

Plane, this is a completely unfair portrayal of what I've said and I think you know that.

I'll give you a real-life scenario. My next door neighbors are lesbians. They are NASCAR and Football loving lesbians. Very nice ladies who love kids. All the children on the block, including my son like to go next door and hang out, especially when the neighbor has her nieces over.

Now the kids just say that she has a "roommate" and I have not bothered to explain differently. What would you have me tell them Plane? Not to play there?


Would it make a difference to you if I told you that they also have a McCain/Palin sign prominently displayed in their yard?

[Michael Tee]

<<Children should be off limits for the government to improve this way , this is a discussion appropriate for adults , but children are defenseless against it.>>

Children are defenceless against ideas, period.  If they learn nothing about the matter at school, they will definitely be "learning" about it at home and in the streets and playgrounds.  All the evidence indicates that what they have learned in the streets and playgounds is enough to turn life into a living hell for tens of thousands of GLBT youth, often with deadly results.

<<Historical examples of governmental success at indoctranateing children includes Hitler youth no less often than any positive development >>

Leaving aside the issue of just how successful the government actually was in indoctrinating the Hitler Youth, I think it's outrageous to compare the Hitler Youth movement to raising kids to be tolerant and non-violent towards alternative lifestyles and sexual diversity.  You don't seem to be against the Pledge of Allegiance, so I take it your anti-indoctrination views are fairly selective.

<< . . . a bright line should be drawn on this side of recruiting.>>

Your use of the word "recruiting" makes me wonder if you have ever viewed the actual material used in schools relating to this issue.  It seems highly unlikely  to me that such material would include anything remotely resembling "recruiting" - - teaching non-violence, tolerance and mutual respect for another lifestyle or non-conforming sexual orientation is a far cry from "recruiting," IMHO. 

"Recruiting" would imply some sustained argument that the alternative is somehow far superior to conventional life, that the kid would be better off or happier on the other side of the normal lifestyle or something of that sort.  Tolerance is not advocacy of the thing tolerated.

I assume that the material you are referring to is something that you have not personally reviewed and would suggest in the interests of simple basic fairness that you become familiar with it before denouncing it.

Rich: the video brought a lump to my throat.  It's absolutely beautiful.  Sad that those kids seem to scare you, and really unnecessary.  That's the future of America - - an America without war and fascism.  An America without evil, deceitful, lying leaders like Bush and Cheney.  An America that once again will enjoy the respect of the world.

[richpo64]

It's right up your ally Mikey.

What would really get you off is if they were all handed red scarfs, Kalashnikov rifles, and went home and turned in their parents.

[Michael Tee]

Rich, it sounds like your entire political education consisted of watching 1950s-era Hollywood black & white propaganda movies on late-night TV.

They were happy, beautiful, optimistic kids singing about a future free of hate, racism, fascism and war.  Their parents aren't colour-blind.  If they wanted red scarves for the kids, they would have gotten them red instead of blue.

[_JS]

Historical examples of governmental success at indoctranateing children includes Hitler youth no less often than any positive development , a bright line should be drawn on this side of recruiting.

Never mind the audacity of comparing homosexuality to Nazism for a moment, the Hitler Youth were not a very successful program of encouraging children to be Fascists. It was basically simple nationalism, not a lot different than the Scouts or schools forcing kids to say the pledge of allegiance every morning. Pope Benedict XVI was in a Hitler Youth program and it did not create a Fascist Fr. Ratzinger.

Moreover, this is a bizarre view of human sexuality. There aren't different sides "recruiting." There isn't a marketing strategy to sell people on heterosexuality, homosexuality, or any other variant. Good lord, do y'all not remember what it was like to be a young man? Did you really have to look to an external source to determine who were attracted to? I knew that Anne Marie Collins was the girl for me at a rather young age. (And Paula Abdul, Janet Jackson, Molly Ringwald but I didn't tell Anne Marie that ).

I just don't understand this worldview you all have. There's no "recruiting." A woman is attracted to other women and a guy to other guys. Just because we don't understand it, does not mean there is some sinister conspiracy afoot. They likely went through the same feelings at that some young age. How can you attack someone for that any more than attacking someone for the color of their skin?

[richpo64]

>>Rich, it sounds like your entire political education consisted of watching 1950s-era Hollywood black & white propaganda movies on late-night TV.<<

It does huh?

 

[Xavier_Onassis]

It sure seems that way. You think Joe McCarthy was some sort of hero, you blab on and on about what a great idea Vietnam was. If you were not so totally ignorant about US history, I imagine you'd tell us about what heroes Alan and John Foster Dulles and John Birch, Madame Chiang and Ydigoras Fuentes were.

[richpo64]

Who knew huh?