The Truth, the Whole Truth And. . .

[hnumpah]

No, not at all.  I'm called names all the time H.  Doesn't both me a hoot.

You sure seem to making a big deal of it, then. "I think we can stop now, don't you?  My anger level is still under control"

I'm sorry if it bothers you.

Bullshit.

Who called you a liar, BTW?

Look for yourself - you won't have to go far.

[sirs]

No, not at all.  I'm called names all the time H.  Doesn't both me a hoot.

You sure seem to making a big deal of it, then. "I think we can stop now, don't you?  My anger level is still under control"

That's entirely having to do with someone sitting in judgement of my walk with God.  I would have thought you would have grasped that

I'm sorry if it bothers you.

Bullshit.

ok, now apparently you read minds?....ok

Who called you a liar, BTW?

Look for yourself - you won't have to go far.

Sorry, I don't have the time to fish thru every thread for someone who called you a liar.  Much easier and simpler if you provide it yourself, and in the context the claim was made.  We thank you in advance.  They were likely wrong, but I'd have to see the line of conversation

[hnumpah]

That's entirely having to do with someone sitting in judgement of my walk with God.

Aww, as though you've never 'sat in judgement' on anyone here. Oh, but it's your 'walk with God', so I guess that makes it special.

ok, now apparently you read minds?....ok

Pretty easy to see you just flat don't care, considering the number of times you've come at me with the same old shit.

We thank you in advance.

Don't. It won't get you anywhere.

[sirs]

That's entirely having to do with someone sitting in judgement of my walk with God.

Aww, as though you've never 'sat in judgement' on anyone here. Oh, but it's your 'walk with God', so I guess that makes it special.

Ok, show the audience where I've EVER sat in judgement of anyone's faith.  Judging when one has acted immorally, unethcially, or illegally is a whole different kettle of fish, H.  God has taught us to distinguish between what is right & what is wrong.  So, ball in your court.  I'm not going to hold my breath, because I can tell you up front, you're not going to find any such examples

ok, now apparently you read minds?....ok

Pretty easy to see you just flat don't care, considering the number of times you've come at me with the same old shit.

Just goes to show you how bad you are at reading minds.  Best leave that to folks better at it, than you are.  Miss Cleo comes to mind

We thank you in advance.

Don't. It won't get you anywhere.

And...............the showing us where you were callled a liar again is..........??.........we be waiting.  It can't be that hard, can it

[hnumpah]

Ok, show the audience where I've EVER sat in judgement of anyone's faith.

Not what I said. You're reading comprehension is off again.

And you can either keep waiting, or go searching for yourself. Try the advanced search, under my name, search term 'liar'. Or sit and spin, I really don't care.

[sirs]

Ok, show the audience where I've EVER sat in judgement of anyone's faith.

Not what I said. You're reading comprehension is off again.

No, your accusation is off again.  I've made it abundantly clear my issue was with someone else judging my walk with God.  I have no problem with someone judging if I'm being truthful or not, acting immoral or not, acting illegal or not.  Conversely I have no trouble judging the other way around.  And sadly, I think you knew that, but insisted on inferring how I have a problem with someone judging me, when it's obvious I judge others as well.  That's bordering on intellectual dishonesty, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you were simply in error

And you can either keep waiting, or go searching for yourself.

Naaaa.  You made the claim, you get to do the work, if you want to make it credible.  I'm going to have to assume at this point it was a false claim, if you're having this much of a caniption in providing it.  No biggie though

[Xavier_Onassis]

sirs likes to wait. While he waits, there is silence, and when there is silence, it speaks volumes. The more volumes of silence he possesses, the more points he gets.

[hnumpah]

Conversely I have no trouble judging the other way around.

Ah, so we are in agreement, then? After all, I didn't say anything about you judging other's faith, now did I?

...insisted on inferring how I have a problem with someone judging me, when it's obvious I judge others as well.

See, there ya go, we agree again. And since 'judging your walk with God' is part and parcel of 'judging you', well, yes, you do appear to have a problem with people judging you.

And no conniption about the rest of it. I've pointed you to where I found the reference, and I only had to look back about 90 days. Of course, that doesn't include the times you have accused me of 'intellectual dishonesty' or some such other bullshit such as a 'rationalization effort' when I've tried to share something here. 'Liar' might be a strong word for it, but what else would you call it when someone accuses you of not being truthful? And I've tried over and over to explain to you that that tag carries as much weight with me as your supposed walk with your God does with you, to no avail. So don't expect any sympathy from me.

[sirs]

Conversely I have no trouble judging the other way around.

Ah, so we are in agreement, then? After all, I didn't say anything about you judging other's faith, now did I?

No, you said I had a problem having someone judge me (with the inferrence that it was in general), when I made it crystal clear that it was specifically about my faith.  You appear to be the one blurring the distinctions.  On purpose?  Naaaaa, that'd be intellectually dishonest then.  And you wouldn't be pulling that now, right?

...insisted on inferring how I have a problem with someone judging me, when it's obvious I judge others as well.

See, there ya go, we agree again. And since 'judging your walk with God' is part and parcel of 'judging you', well, yes, you do appear to have a problem with people judging you. ............

Now lets finish that statement for accuracy....... when its regarding your faith & walk with God.  There, all better now

I've pointed you to where I found the reference, and I only had to look back about 90 days.

oy.  You made a claim someone called you a liar.  I simply asked who and in what context, and you want me to go search back 90+days.  Sorry, that's your job, if you want the claim to have more merit than just you throwing it out there.  But if you're happy with just that, fine

[_JS]

Yea, being called a bigot, a victim, and morally relativisic are such endearing terms.  But hey, if you want to love the sin as well Js, by all means, that's between you and your God.  As opposed to you, I'm not going to sit over you in Judgement.

This is getting far too petty.

Sirs, you are being extremely defensive. I'm challenging your view as bigoted. Then I challenged your defense of that view as "playing the victim" and moral relativism. Those were, what I saw as two techniques you employed.

Not everything need be taken quite so personally.

[_JS]

I'll try and use less personal language so I won't hurt your feelings.

Good policy in general.

The "personal walk with God" defense of using the "hate the sin, love the sinner" ethical rule is nothing more than a mask for moral relativism.

Oh?

What was the policy of Jesus himself in this re guard?

Didn't Jesus complain that Johnthe Baptist was criticised for fasting a lot and keeping to himself , while he ,Jesus , took criticism for eating out with ordinary and sinfull people?

Like Zacheus who was a notorious sinner but was host to Jesus in his own home , Jesus loved Zacheus but when criticised for spending time with him he didn't complement Zacheus virtue , he said he was here to heal and like a physician he wasn't here to heal the already well , he was looking for sinners to heal.

Good points Plane, the problem is that you nor Sirs have been able to find the verse where "Jesus hated" or been able to connect Christian love with an unorthodox notion of "Christian hate."

I want to see the proof for that. It can be Biblical, traditional, historical...but show me how that works in Christian theology. Show me that this isn't exactly what I said it is.

[sirs]

Yea, being called a bigot, a victim, and morally relativisic are such endearing terms.  But hey, if you want to love the sin as well Js, by all means, that's between you and your God.  As opposed to you, I'm not going to sit over you in Judgement.

I'm challenging your view as bigoted. Then I challenged your defense of that view as "playing the victim" and moral relativism. Those were, what I saw as two techniques you employed.  Not everything need be taken quite so personally.

No, you're challenging my FAITH, and unlike you, I'm not planning on responding reciprically in judgement.  You are neither my minister nor my "spiritual advisor & mentor"

[_JS]

Yea, being called a bigot, a victim, and morally relativisic are such endearing terms.  But hey, if you want to love the sin as well Js, by all means, that's between you and your God.  As opposed to you, I'm not going to sit over you in Judgement.

I'm challenging your view as bigoted. Then I challenged your defense of that view as "playing the victim" and moral relativism. Those were, what I saw as two techniques you employed.  Not everything need be taken quite so personally.

No, you're challenging my FAITH, and unlike you, I'm not planning on responding reciprically in judgement.  You are neither my minister nor my "spiritual advisor & mentor"

 

[Plane]

I'll try and use less personal language so I won't hurt your feelings.

Good policy in general.

The "personal walk with God" defense of using the "hate the sin, love the sinner" ethical rule is nothing more than a mask for moral relativism.

Oh?

What was the policy of Jesus himself in this re guard?

Didn't Jesus complain that Johnthe Baptist was criticised for fasting a lot and keeping to himself , while he ,Jesus , took criticism for eating out with ordinary and sinfull people?

Like Zacheus who was a notorious sinner but was host to Jesus in his own home , Jesus loved Zacheus but when criticised for spending time with him he didn't complement Zacheus virtue , he said he was here to heal and like a physician he wasn't here to heal the already well , he was looking for sinners to heal.

Good points Plane, the problem is that you nor Sirs have been able to find the verse where "Jesus hated" or been able to connect Christian love with an unorthodox notion of "Christian hate."

I want to see the proof for that. It can be Biblical, traditional, historical...but show me how that works in Christian theology. Show me that this isn't exactly what I said it is.

Oh is that all you want?

I think that Jesus had a special feeling towards Hypocrisy , he was now and then so peeved at hypocritical speech and behavior that he was heard to spew flaming invective in the direction of those he considered hypocritical, "generation of vipers" ,for example. He would even resort to public ridicule or corporal punishment when the offense was severe enough . I don't know if the guys he was insulting in public or strikeing with a whip really understod how much of a love he had for their person.

He instructed his unarmed disciples to buy swords sell their clothes if they needed to, but buy a sword.

As far as I know the only thing he is recorded to have killed was a tree so I don't want to paint him as uncontrolled , but I think that when anger was appropriate, he was angry.

Did Jesus preach peace and forgiveness as being superior to anger and violence? Certainly he did ,when people say "Live by the soward, die by the soward" they are quoteing Jesus. But a lot of his preaching included warning of hell and that being disobedient and separated from God would buy you a ticket there. As he was dieing from a severe beating and crucifixion he prayed to God that his persecutors would be forgiven , because they know not what they do , he seemed to imply thateven the fellows who scurged and crucified him could hope for forgiveness , after all "...they know not what they do".

Jesus didn't like the idea of getting crucified , he prayed hard the previous night to have some other choice , if ever there was a sin that deserved for him to hate it and work against it the thouroughly predictable crucifixion would qualify , but because he was going to use the crucifixion as the vehicle of salvation for the people , he went through with it.

"greater love has no man than he that will give his life for his freind" seems true on the face of it and has deeper truth within it . Jesus who was as fully human as any other human and as fully capable of hatred as any of us told us flatly that none of us deserved salvation but for the sake of love he gave his life away , not holding back this salvation even from those whose personal activity caused him pain and death.

[hnumpah]

As far as I know the only thing he is recorded to have killed was a tree...

Well, there was that herd of swine.