Obama, Get Your Ass Back to DC & Deal w/ Terrorism

[Stray Pooch]

Reagan was no more a DC Insider than you or I. He ran unsuccessfully in 76 and then successfully in 80.

Clinton was an outsider too.

So we have two reasonably successful outsider administrations against one failed outsider administration.

I don't think your outsider bias withstands scrutiny.

I wouldn't call Clinton's Presidency successful, but you can certainly argue that if you want to.  Reagan was a known face in national politics.  I was a teenager and I knew who Ronald Reagan the candidate was long before I knew he was a former movie star.  Jimmy Carter was a true unknown.  He was elected because everyone wanted a new face.  He wasn't ready.  Btw, isn't this newbie an outsider?

[BT]

Btw, isn't this newbie an outsider?

He's a newbie, as a former Senator, he isn't an outsider.

[Stray Pooch]

Btw, isn't this newbie an outsider?

He's a newbie, as a former Senator, he isn't an outsider.

That's true, but he seemed to want to portray himself as one.  He promised a change in the way politics was done.  He's doing that.

Off-topic, is there a record to the number of posts and views on a particular thread?  I was noticing the views on this one are heading towards the Kilo-view mark!

[BT]

He promised a change in the way politics was done.  He's doing that.

How so?

Off-topic, is there a record to the number of posts and views on a particular thread?  I was noticing the views on this one are heading towards the Kilo-view mark!

Not that i am aware of.

[Rich]

>>Nixon was probably the most liberal Republican president in my lifetime.<<

<chuckle>

Nixon ... enjoying a liberal love-fest ... Talk about bad form.

[sirs]

To be honest Pooch, I think you may be confusing independent with a lack of principals.  Now I absoltuely respect his service and sacrifices to this country.  I'm not looking for a President willing to short change his principals.  I'm looking for a President, who I can have confidence in, to stick with his (or her) conservative pledges.  Just because one bucks with their party, doesn't automatically give them brownie points in my book.  I'm a conservative.  Worse, I'm a Christian Conservative. My president can buck the party line, all they want, so long as the decisions being made, in that bucking, have a principled conservative foundation.

And there's the problem.  I am not confusing Independence with a lack of principles.  You are confusing principles with conservatism.  John McCain IS a man who is willing to stand up for what he believes is right WHETHER OR NOT it comes from a conservative position.

Nooooo, not exactly correct.  as I was hoping to make clear, my problem with McCain is his lack of Conservative principals, while attempting to campaign on them.  And his attempt to "stand up" to the conservative base is precisely opposite of the Principled leader I would want as my President

Joe Lieberman is another man of principles, and so is Arlen Specter.  

Not really...in either case.  Both are moderate leftists, they simply were at one time of differing parties, but their ideologies were nearly identical.  Lieberman, while I applaud his support of Bush and the war in Iraq, largely parroted the leftist Gore in all his campaign rhetoric, in 2000.  Now it's not as politically as tasty to do so.  Same with Specter.  He largely supported Bush & the war, but all his domestic support was largely center left.  He's since likely shot his re-election chances by NOT remaining princepled, and switched parties.  Now you can argue that he changed parties because of principals...I'd argue he did because it was politically helpful for him at the time.  I doubt very seriously he'd have changed if the GOP was the majority party.

If you ask a Democrat they will claim I'm right about Spector and wrong about Lieberman - and a Republican would say just the opposite. 

As you can see, I disagreed.  Then again, I'm neither a Dem or a Repub.  Remember, I'm referencing ideology, Pooch.  McCain is not an "independent" as much as he's simply a moderate Republican.  Moderates, are in large part an ideology that is constantly trying to bridge gaps, frequently obligating a need NOT to stay principled, in order to achieve some form of compromise.  I'm willing to compromise, to a certain degree, but NOT at the discarding of conservative principles and ideology.  Civil Unions being a perfect example.  Support of certain level of taxation, being another.  Point is, McCain is NOT as "independent" as you might think.  He's a politician 1st and formost, and a moderate in his ideology. 

But at least he's not a hard core liberal

[Plane]

And yet she doesn't have snowballs chance in hell because .... because she fluffed a media question, she was the target of a SNL spoof, she didn't graduate from an Ivy League College? Joy Behar doesn't like her?

Because she comes off like an amateur.  This is not the Amateur Hour - and, paradoxically, it IS American Idol.  (Nobody under 50 would get that point.)

Not a few people are tired of the professional pols whos main experience is talking to others of their own ilk , it seems like a grand conspiricy of old cronys , who feel as if they need not understand how anything other than politics works.

If Sara is elected in the tradition of Davy Crockett I would be pleased witht he whole idea , would I feel as if a good president were garunteed that way? , no , not at all , but a good president is not being pulled from the pros all that often either.

[sirs]

And yet she doesn't have snowballs chance in hell because .... because she fluffed a media question, she was the target of a SNL spoof, she didn't graduate from an Ivy League College? Joy Behar doesn't like her?

Because she comes off like an amateur.  This is not the Amateur Hour - and, paradoxically, it IS American Idol.  (Nobody under 50 would get that point.)

Sarah Palin: Wrong prescription for America?
Posted: January 07, 2010

"Sarah Palin, do you guys really like her?"

My dad's doctor asked me this a couple of weeks ago. His smile seemed to shout, "Are you guys crazy?" I had taken my 94-year-old Republican father to see him several times, but politics never came up. Did the doc really want to go there? It went something like this:

"What's the problem with her?" I said.

"Well, she's, she's ?"

"Stupid?"

"All right."

"Really? Why, because she isn't as glib or articulate as you elites like? She didn't answer Katie Couric or Charlie Gibson the way President Obama would have?"

"Yes ? I'm one of those elites."

"How stupid do you have to be to take on the establishment in Alaska and win? How stupid do you have to be to have ? at the time Republican presidential candidate John McCain picked her ? an 84 percent popularity rating in Alaska? She had more executive experience than Obama."

"Well, she doesn't come across as prepared."

"I don't know what qualities you look for. But I'll tell you what counts for me: character, competence and vision. She's likable. She has a strong, stable marriage with a down-to-earth husband. She has convictions that I agree with. Government too big? Check. People taxed too much? Check. Stay on offense in the war on terror? Check. For me, what's not to like?"

"I'd worry about her judgment."

"Do you worry about Vice President Joe Biden's?"

"No, why should I?"

"Where do I start? Put aside all the gaffes. He's the one who, during their debate, cited the wrong part of the Constitution when asked to describe the role of the vice president. As a new member of Congress, he voted to cut off funding to the South Vietnamese. This helped lead to the slaughter of millions in that country and Cambodia. Biden routinely challenged President Ronald Reagan on fighting the Cold War, even though even some Reagan haters now believe Reagan's policies helped speed up the fall of the Soviet Union. Biden opposed the first Gulf War. Wrong. He supported the Iraq War, then argued that Iraq should be divided into three parts, then opposed the surge ? said it wouldn't work ? and then opposed the war that he earlier voted for. Wrong."

"C'mon, you're entitled to change your opinion."

"You are. But we are talking about judgment. And Palin has taken a consistent and defensible position on the war. You may disagree, but at least she's clear. And the surge did work. Iraq might just make it. We'll see what the Middle East is like in 20 years. So far this month (of December), zero coalition combat deaths in Iraq. Pretty impressive."

"Yeah, it is."

"And I don't know how you feel about abortion. But Palin is, as I'm sure you know, strongly pro-life. She learns she's pregnant with a child with Down syndrome. Even many pro-lifers would have aborted that child. Palin didn't. That's talking the talk and walking the walk, and yes, 'us guys' think it's admirable."

"I, I don't know whether she's bright enough."

"And a lot of people on the left thought President George W. Bush was dumb, too. Are you one of them?

"I admit it."

"Did you know he had better grades in college than Al Gore?"

"He did?"

"Did you know he scored higher on his military IQ test than did John Kerry?"

"No."

"Did you know he got a higher SAT score than did Rhodes scholar Bill Bradley?"

"No."

"Obama is clearly smart," I said.

"Yeah, and he doesn't turn people off. He's brilliant."

"OK. And it took Obama nearly three months to decide how to respond to the request for more troops in Afghanistan. In making important decisions ? things that matter ? a president spends more time than it takes to answer a reporter's question on what the 'Bush Doctrine' means. Oh, and about turning people off, Palin's popularity is now about equal to Obama's."

"Well, I just feel more comfortable with him."

"Would you feel comfortable with him if he were a low-tax, low-regulation, limited-government, strong-national-security Republican ? same guy, different views?"

"Probably not."

"OK, then this is really about ideology."

"Well ?" he laughed.

"Were you OK with bailing out all those banks?"

"No, but Bush did it, too."

"He shouldn't have, but how we got there is about government butting into the housing business. What about bailing out GM?"

"No."

"Do you think the stimulus package truly 'created or saved' a bunch of jobs?"

"No."

"Are you OK with Obamacare?"

Dad's doctor suddenly turned into Mr. Hyde. He teed off on the government dictating how he should practice medicine. He predicted that costs would go up, not down. He predicted that quality would go down, not up. He talked about the importance of the profit incentive.

"Sarah Palin feels the same way you do."

As for my dad, some swelling, occasional dizziness ? not bad for a 94-year-old. Thank you for asking.



Still think she's 'just an amateur'?

[sirs]

John McCain IS a man who is willing to stand up for what he believes is right WHETHER OR NOT it comes from a conservative position.  Joe Lieberman is another man of principles, and so is Arlen Specter.  

Not really...in either case.  Both are moderate leftists, they simply were at one time of differing parties, but their ideologies were nearly identical.....Remember, I'm referencing ideology, Pooch.  McCain is not an "independent" as much as he's simply a moderate Republican.  Moderates, are in large part an ideology that is constantly trying to bridge gaps, frequently obligating a need NOT to stay principled, in order to achieve some form of compromise.  I'm willing to compromise, to a certain degree, but NOT at the discarding of conservative principles and ideology. 

Ouch

[Stray Pooch]

To be honest Pooch, I think you may be confusing independent with a lack of principals.  Now I absoltuely respect his service and sacrifices to this country.  I'm not looking for a President willing to short change his principals.  I'm looking for a President, who I can have confidence in, to stick with his (or her) conservative pledges.  Just because one bucks with their party, doesn't automatically give them brownie points in my book.  I'm a conservative.  Worse, I'm a Christian Conservative. My president can buck the party line, all they want, so long as the decisions being made, in that bucking, have a principled conservative foundation.

And there's the problem.  I am not confusing Independence with a lack of principles.  You are confusing principles with conservatism.  John McCain IS a man who is willing to stand up for what he believes is right WHETHER OR NOT it comes from a conservative position.

Nooooo, not exactly correct.  as I was hoping to make clear, my problem with McCain is his lack of Conservative principals, while attempting to campaign on them.  And his attempt to "stand up" to the conservative base is precisely opposite of the Principled leader I would want as my President

Joe Lieberman is another man of principles, and so is Arlen Specter.  

Not really...in either case.  Both are moderate leftists, they simply were at one time of differing parties, but their ideologies were nearly identical.  Lieberman, while I applaud his support of Bush and the war in Iraq, largely parroted the leftist Gore in all his campaign rhetoric, in 2000.  Now it's not as politically as tasty to do so.  Same with Specter.  He largely supported Bush & the war, but all his domestic support was largely center left.  He's since likely shot his re-election chances by NOT remaining princepled, and switched parties.  Now you can argue that he changed parties because of principals...I'd argue he did because it was politically helpful for him at the time.  I doubt very seriously he'd have changed if the GOP was the majority party.

If you ask a Democrat they will claim I'm right about Spector and wrong about Lieberman - and a Republican would say just the opposite. 

As you can see, I disagreed.  Then again, I'm neither a Dem or a Repub.  Remember, I'm referencing ideology, Pooch.  McCain is not an "independent" as much as he's simply a moderate Republican.  Moderates, are in large part an ideology that is constantly trying to bridge gaps, frequently obligating a need NOT to stay principled, in order to achieve some form of compromise.  I'm willing to compromise, to a certain degree, but NOT at the discarding of conservative principles and ideology.  Civil Unions being a perfect example.  Support of certain level of taxation, being another.  Point is, McCain is NOT as "independent" as you might think.  He's a politician 1st and formost, and a moderate in his ideology. 

But at least he's not a hard core liberal

I inadvertantly capitlaized Independent in my original post.  I was not suggesting McCain was an "Independent" but rather that his thinking was independent of party.  That was my fault. 

As to the rest of your analysis, I respectfully disagree.  Also, I happen to think that strict adherence to either a conservative or liberal ideological mindset is NOT a good thing.   It is, however (and I do not mean this disrespectfully) something that one ought to expect from you,  given that your screenname, IIRC, once included the very Politically Incorrect "PC".      Now there's a blast from the past!

[Stray Pooch]

John McCain IS a man who is willing to stand up for what he believes is right WHETHER OR NOT it comes from a conservative position.  Joe Lieberman is another man of principles, and so is Arlen Specter.  

Not really...in either case.  Both are moderate leftists, they simply were at one time of differing parties, but their ideologies were nearly identical.....Remember, I'm referencing ideology, Pooch.  McCain is not an "independent" as much as he's simply a moderate Republican.  Moderates, are in large part an ideology that is constantly trying to bridge gaps, frequently obligating a need NOT to stay principled, in order to achieve some form of compromise.  I'm willing to compromise, to a certain degree, but NOT at the discarding of conservative principles and ideology. 

Ouch

Did something get deleted here?  It looks like you are quoting youself.  If that IS what happened, I'm not sure what the "Ouch" is all about. 

[Stray Pooch]

And yet she doesn't have snowballs chance in hell because .... because she fluffed a media question, she was the target of a SNL spoof, she didn't graduate from an Ivy League College? Joy Behar doesn't like her?

Because she comes off like an amateur.  This is not the Amateur Hour - and, paradoxically, it IS American Idol.  (Nobody under 50 would get that point.)

Not a few people are tired of the professional pols whos main experience is talking to others of their own ilk , it seems like a grand conspiricy of old cronys , who feel as if they need not understand how anything other than politics works.

If Sara is elected in the tradition of Davy Crockett I would be pleased witht he whole idea , would I feel as if a good president were garunteed that way? , no , not at all , but a good president is not being pulled from the pros all that often either.

I would be fine if the Republlicans win back the White House - with Sarah or anybody else.  It seems apparent that the point of my objection to Sarah Palin as a candidate is not getting through to the Palinites on the site.  I have no personal problem with her.  I just don't think she can win.

[Stray Pooch]

He promised a change in the way politics was done.  He's doing that.

How so?

Well, I could be wrong, since I've never really made a study of it.  But it seems to me that in the past when the Senate and House were trying to reconcile a bill it included both parties - and  not the executive branch.

[Stray Pooch]

Still think she's 'just an amateur'?[/url]

Yes I do.  Further (and more to my point)  I think she COMES OFF as an amateur. 

Incidentally, the article you posted was a very poorly reasoned piece of propaganda.   It made no viable arguments to refute the idea tha Sarah Palin looks foolish to voters.  Rather, it attempted to take exception to that very mindset. The summation of that approach goes like this:  "Voters do NOT think Sarah Palin looks foolish - and anyway they're wrong about that!" 

As to the arguments presented, they are weak, slanted and defensive.  I will not refute them point by point because many of them I already have in this thread and others are just not worth the effort.  But I will say that among other things, it made the ridiculous and irrelevent argument that Palin's popularit NOW is close to Obama's (a sad claim, given that our side is crowing about how LOW his popularity is).  Frankly, I suspect that this dialogue is a "composite" one, which never actually took place. 

Again, I have no problem with Sarah and will vote for her absent a better choice, but I do not think she is a good candidate and I hope that something better . . . well, you know.

I am reminded of how this club got its name.

[Stray Pooch]

>>Nixon was probably the most liberal Republican president in my lifetime.<<

<chuckle>

Nixon ... enjoying a liberal love-fest ... Talk about bad form.

Lol.  Well, you  may have me there.  But after all, he DID go on Laugh-In.  Senator Inouye took the suggestion Nixon made on that show a tad seriously, I think!