Author Topic: Tea Partiers Are Just Embarrassed Republicans  (Read 3931 times)

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Michael Tee

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Tea Partiers Are Just Embarrassed Republicans
« on: April 20, 2010, 09:37:37 PM »
Here's the low-down on the Tea Partiers and their dyed-in-the-wool Republican roots.

Teabaggers are just embarrassed Republicans
http://www.dailykos.com/
by Jed Lewison

Tue Apr 20, 2010 at 07:50:03 AM PDT

<<Over at 538, Tom Schaller asks Perot movement expert Ron Rapoport of William & Mary to compare the tea partiers of 2010 with the Perotistas of the 1990s:

<<The Perot movement is inherently different. It was formed around a candidate during a presidential election campaign. This explains the support by Perot supporters for a third party which tea partiers at present lack. The major difference is that Perot movement was a total rejection of both parties, while the tea party movement is a total rejection of only one party--the Democrats.

<<Whereas only 5% of tea party supporters said that they usually or always voted Democratic, fully one-third of Perot supporters had voted for Walter Mondale in 1984 and slightly more had voted for Michael Dukakis in 1988.

<<In the New York Times survey, 54% of tea partiers rated the Republican Party favorably. Only 17% of Perot callers rated either party as “above average” or “outstanding” and 43% rated both parties as “below average,” or “poor” with 8% rating the Republicans as “above average” or “outstanding,” and 9% rating the Democrats as “outstanding” or “above average.” Sixty-nine percent rated the Republicans as “below average” or “poor,” with 64% saying the same about Democrats.

<<The level of favorability among tea partiers for George W. Bush is extraordinarily high—far more than in the population as a whole. Fifty-seven percent of tea party supporters rate Bush favorably, and only 27% rate him unfavorably (for the sample as a whole the corresponding percentages are reversed 27% favorable, 58% unfavorable. On the other hand Perot supporters rated both Geroge H. W. Bush and Bill Clinton unfavorably, Bush moreso than Clinton.

<<Rapoport's analysis underscores the extent to which tea partiers are really just embarrassed Republicans. Actually, putting it that way is a bit of an oversimplification. I should say: tea partiers are really just embarrassed Republicans -- unless they think that the Republican Party is too liberal for them. But there's nobody in the tea party movement who thinks that the GOP is too conservative. And there's nobody who is angry at GOPers but not Dems.

<<Tea party sponsors like Fox have eagerly pushed the claim that teabagging is a bipartisan thing to do, but there's no real evidence to support that myth. Instead, we've got a bunch of conservatives who think that the best response to the failure of their ideas is to rebrand conservativism as tea partyism instead of Republicanism.

<<They'd be better off rethinking their ideas.>>


BT

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Re: Tea Partiers Are Just Embarrassed Republicans
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2010, 09:46:05 PM »
Rapoport's analysis underscores the extent to which tea partiers are really just embarrassed Republicans.

Seems like Rapoport is on the outside looking in and applies values to movements he does not understand.

And if memory serves correctly the Perot movement was more predominantly white than the tea partiers and therefore racist.




Michael Tee

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Re: Tea Partiers Are Just Embarrassed Republicans
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2010, 09:56:09 PM »
Seems to me like Rapoport had a pretty convincing explanation for the numbers, and his explanation was that the Tea Partiers were just pissed-off Republicans trying to look like a non-partisan third party movement, probably (IMHO) because the GOP brand is still toxic.

I notice that apart from trying to brand the ol' Rapster as an outsider looking in (a curious observation which seems aimed at delegitimizing any criticism of the Tea Critters that doesn't come from within their own ranks) you seemed to have no valid substantive criticism to make of the Rapster's take on them, which indicates to me that he is right on the mark.

I won't really comment on your attempt to brand the Perot movement as racist, it's just too transparent a deflection to be worth the effort, apart from saying that they might have been racist but the more effective criticism of the movement is that its leader turned out to be nuts.  Unfortunately so, because before he started foaming at the mouth, I was effectively in his corner, and the two American cousins of mine whom I have the most respect for politically were prepared to vote for him.

BT

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Re: Tea Partiers Are Just Embarrassed Republicans
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2010, 10:23:07 PM »
Resolved: The tea party movement is no different than the netroots movement except for positioning on the political spectrum

Discuss.


Michael Tee

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Re: Tea Partiers Are Just Embarrassed Republicans
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2010, 10:27:58 PM »
Netroots?  They still around?  I thought they died of AIDS or some . . .  oh, sorry, that was Ted Rall. 

Well, I dunno.  Does anyone still remember netroots?  Maybe someone could post a video of an angry netroots mob with racist signs, I forget what they looked like.

sirs

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Re: Tea Partiers Are Just Embarrassed Republicans
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2010, 10:49:26 PM »
And maybe someone could actually post a video of an angry Tea Party mob, with a whole host of racist signs.  Or is the best we're gonna get is some congress critter who said he heard the "n word", from somewhere, that not one micropone or phone camera could capture..........anywhere
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Tea Partiers Are Just Embarrassed Republicans
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2010, 11:12:34 PM »
Quote
Well, I dunno.  Does anyone still remember netroots?  Maybe someone could post a video of an angry netroots mob with racist signs, I forget what they looked like.

Every time you read the Huffington Post or the DailyKos you are hanging with the netroots.

But you knew that.

and the netroots are still a force to be reckoned. They almost derailed the ObamaCare bill because it didn't go far enough. Sentiments you most certainly shared with them.


sirs

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Re: Tea Partiers Are Just Embarrassed Republicans
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2010, 12:56:05 PM »
I attended the Cincinnati Tax Day Tea Party rally as a speaker. But it was more interesting to be an observer.

First, here's what I didn't see. I didn't see a single racist or bigoted sign or hear a single such comment. Nor did I see any evidence of "homegrown fascism." Though in fairness, such things are often in the eye of the beholder, now that dissent has gone from being the highest form of patriotism under George W. Bush to the most common form of racism under Barack Obama.

But I did see something a lot of people, on both the left and the right, seemed to have missed: a delayed Bush backlash.

One of the more widespread anti-tea party arguments goes like this: Republicans didn't protest very much when Bush ran up deficits and expanded government, so when Obama does the same thing (albeit on a far grander scale), Republican complaints can't be sincere.

This lazy sophistry opens the door to liberals' preferred argument: racism. "No student of American history," writes Paul Butler in the New York Times, "would be surprised to learn that when the United States elects its first non-white president, a strong anti-government movement rises up."

Butler, a law professor and author of the no-doubt-seminal "Let's Get Free: A Hip-Hop Theory of Justice," speaks for many in the media when he insinuates that nearly unprecedented stimulus spending combined with government takeovers of the health care, banking and automotive industries are dwarfed in importance by Obama's skin color.

I speak for many who have actually spoken to tea partiers when I say that is slanderous hogwash.

But how, then, to explain the relative right-wing quiescence on Bush's watch and fiscal Puritanism on Obama's?

No doubt partisanship plays a role. But partisanship only explains so much given that the tea partiers are clearly sincere about limited government and often quite fond of Republican-bashing. So here's an alternative explanation: Conservatives don't want to be fooled again.

Recall that Bush came into office promising to be a "different kind of conservative," and one of his first legislative victories was the No Child Left Behind Act, sponsored by Teddy Kennedy.

Throughout his presidency, Bush's "compassionate conservatism" surrendered -- either rhetorically or substantively -- to the assumptions of welfare state liberalism, i.e. that your decency was best measured by your commitment to large, inefficient government programs. "When somebody hurts," Bush insisted, "government has got to move."

Many conservatives disliked this whole mind-set and the policies behind it, from comprehensive immigration reform to Medicare Part D.

Many conservatives muted their objections, in part because they actually liked the man personally or because they approved of his stances on tax cuts, judges, abortion and, most important, the war on terror (we can see a similar dynamic with so many antiwar liberals who still support Obama).

Conservatives didn't necessarily bite their tongues (remember the Harriet Miers and immigration fiascoes), but they did prioritize supporting Bush -- often in the face of far nastier attacks than Obama has received -- over ideological purity. Besides, where were conservatives supposed to go? Into the arms of John Kerry?

The 2008 GOP primaries compounded conservative frustration. Because there was no stand-in for Bush in the contest, there was no obvious outlet for anger at Bush's years of pre-surge Iraq bungling or his decision to outsource domestic spending to Republican congressional ward-heelers. Then, as a lame duck, Bush laid down the predicates for much of Obama's first 100 days, supporting both a stimulus and Wall Street bailouts. As one participant of the D.C. Tea Party rally told the Washington Examiner's Byron York, "George Bush opened the door for Barack Obama and the Democrats to walk in."

According to last week's NYT/CBS poll of tea party supporters, 57 percent have a favorable view of Bush, but that hardly captures the nuance of tea party feelings. For instance, when Bush's face appeared on the Jumbotron in the arena, the Cincinnati audience applauded. When speakers criticized Bush and the GOP for "losing their way," the audience applauded even louder.

Going by what I saw in Cincinnati, second to a profound desire to rein in government, the chief attitude driving the 39 percent of tea partiers who describe themselves as "very conservative" isn't partisanship, racism or seizing the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia. It's "we won't be fooled again." In the near term, that spells trouble for Obama and Democrats. In the long term, that lays down a serious gauntlet for Republicans


Tea Partiers a Delayed Bush Backlash?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Tea Partiers Are Just Embarrassed Republicans
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2010, 01:44:42 PM »
<<Every time you read the Huffington Post or the DailyKos you are hanging with the netroots.>>

Ahhhh, OK.  So where are the racist slogans and "I Got Mine" attitudes of the Hufpo/Kossack mobs?  Or the leftist equivalent thereof?  Nope, I don't think netroots are the left equivalent of the Tea Parties.  Not only are they completely lacking in the hate-filled "back to the 19th century" attitude of the Tea Partiers, they seem to be pure rationality, as opposed to the sheer irrationality of the crypto-fascist Tea mobs.

I have another problem with netroots, especially with the Kossacks, if they are a part of that movement:  I think they are WAAAAY too complacent with Obama's war and torture policies.  They should be screaming for war crimes trials, not only of the Bush administration torturers, but the U.S. Murder Corps thugs videotaped in the leaked tape of the New Baghdad Massacre.   (See how fast THAT story vanished from the MSM!!)

<<But you knew that.>>

Alas, BT, you give me far too much credit.

<<and the netroots are still a force to be reckoned. They almost derailed the ObamaCare bill because it didn't go far enough. Sentiments you most certainly shared with them.>>

Didn't go far enough, eh?   Who are we kidding here?  It was a total sell-out to the financial interests that share Obama's bed.

sirs

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Re: Tea Partiers Are Just Embarrassed Republicans
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2010, 01:49:20 PM »
And maybe someone could actually post a video of an angry Tea Party mob, with a whole host of racist signs.  Or is the best we're gonna get is some congress critter who said he heard the "n word", from somewhere, that not one micropone or phone camera could capture..........anywhere

And Tee fails, yet again to address a serious debate forum inquiry.  Credibility?  ahhh, that's so overrated, right?      ;)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Tea Partiers Are Just Embarrassed Republicans
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2010, 01:55:20 PM »
Quote
hhhh, OK.  So where are the racist slogans and "I Got Mine" attitudes of the Hufpo/Kossack mobs?

Is patronization that much different than racism? I don't think so. Both are based on presuppositions of inferiority.

Are you speaking of the level of hate emanating from either group? As your hero Ted Rall admitted, the left has nothing to be proud of.

And the real difference between the tea party movement and the Perot movement is obvious.

One was based on a cult of personality, much like the trail Obama took and the other is based on ideals.

I'll stick with my assessment, the tea party movement is a mirror image of the nets roots movement.


Michael Tee

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Re: Tea Partiers Are Just Embarrassed Republicans
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2010, 02:37:07 PM »
<<Is patronization that much different than racism? I don't think so. Both are based on presuppositions of inferiority.>>

I don't buy that netroots is patronizing anyone, but even if I did, I'd have to wonder how many lynching victims were killed by patronization?

<<Are you speaking of the level of hate emanating from either group? >>

Nope, I'm speaking of racism and irrationality primarily.  And the propensity to resort to violence, as evidenced by the gun-nuts and gun violence signs seen at the Tea Parties.

<<As your hero Ted Rall admitted, the left has nothing to be proud of.>>

Ted Rall surprised me by finding that there was as much hate coming out of right-wing groups as left-wing groups.  He made no attempt to compare the objects of that hatred to see which were the more deserving of it.  There isn't much more to be made out of Rall's findings.

<<And the real difference between the tea party movement and the Perot movement is obvious.

<<One was based on a cult of personality, much like the trail Obama took and the other is based on ideals.>>

Perot the object of a cult of personality?  That's rich.  Perot was a cranky old man, a little too glib and arrogant for my liking.  Perot's logic and his charts were what convinced me and a lot of others that he was on the right track, not his personality.  That plus his guts in speaking out against the established order.

<<I'll stick with my assessment, the tea party movement is a mirror image of the nets roots movement.>>

Good luck widdat.

sirs

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Re: Tea Partiers Are Just Embarrassed Republicans
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2010, 02:46:46 PM »
And yet again with the tactic of lack of evidence (racist Tea party folk, complete with the mind set of advocating violence & lynchings) as proof positive (of racist Tea party folk)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Tea Partiers Are Just Embarrassed Republicans
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2010, 02:48:52 PM »
Quote
I don't buy that netroots is patronizing anyone, but even if I did, I'd have to wonder how many lynching victims were killed by patronization?

So now we have a yardstick.

Pray tell, how many were lynched by tea partiers?

Michael Tee

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Re: Tea Partiers Are Just Embarrassed Republicans
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2010, 02:51:57 PM »
<<So now we have a yardstick.

<<Pray tell, how many were lynched by tea partiers?>>

Since I was responding to the distinction you drew between racism and patronization, the question you asked is obviously irrelevant to my last post.  The only relevant questions would be, how many were lynched by racism, and how many by partronizaiton?