Author Topic: No doubt it works  (Read 10531 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: No doubt it works
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2007, 10:02:57 AM »
Has any president ever done more to limit the harshness of treatment of our POWS than has President Bush?

EVERY president has done more than Juniorbush. Ask Amnesty International.

The US tried and executed Japanese for using waterboarding.

Then, it was clearly a war crime, but under Juniorbush, "it depends".

What a load!
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Richpo64

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Re: No doubt it works
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2007, 10:22:52 AM »
>>The US tried and executed Japanese for using waterboarding.<<

They did huh? Then I'm sure you'll be able to provide us with the names and dates of these trails and executions.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: No doubt it works
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2007, 10:33:29 AM »
McCain: Japanese Hanged For Waterboarding
GOP Candidate Says There Should Be "Little Doubt" It Is Torture

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ST. PETERSBURG, Fla., Nov. 29, 2007

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Republican presidential hopeful, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz. speaks during the CNN/YouTube debate in St. Petersburg, Fla. Wednesday, Nov. 28, 2007.  (AP)

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Candidates' views on immigration, capital punishment and the Iraq war were front and center at the YouTube GOP debate, with each fight yielding a surprising outcome. Jeff Greenfield reports. | Share

    * Candidates\' views on immigration, capital punishment and the Iraq war were front and center at the YouTube GOP debate, with each fight yielding a surprising outcome. Jeff Greenfield reports.
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(AP) Republican presidential candidate John McCain reminded people Thursday that some Japanese were tried and hanged for torturing American prisoners during World War II with techniques that included waterboarding.

=======================
Twenty-one years earlier, in 1947, the United States charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for carrying out another form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian. The subject was strapped on a stretcher that was tilted so that his feet were in the air and head near the floor, and small amounts of water were poured over his face, leaving him gasping for air until he agreed to talk.

"Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor," Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) told his colleagues last Thursday during the debate on military commissions legislation. "We punished people with 15 years of hard labor when waterboarding was used against Americans in World War II," he said.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"There should be little doubt from American history that we consider that as torture otherwise we wouldn't have tried and convicted Japanese for doing that same thing to Americans," McCain said during a news conference.

He said he forgot to mention that piece of history during Wednesday night's Republican debate, during which he criticized former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney after Romney declined to publicly say what interrogation techniques he would rule out.

"I would also hope that he would not want to be associated with a technique which was invented in the Spanish Inquisition, was used by Pol Pot in one of the great eras of genocide in history and is being used on Burmese monks as we speak," the Arizona senator said. "America is a better nation than that."

Waterboarding generally makes breathing difficult and can cause the subject to think he's drowning. It's banned by domestic law and international treaties, but those policies don't cover CIA personnel and President Bush's administration won't say whether it has been allowed against terrorism detainees.

McCain was a prisoner of war for more than five years during the Vietnam War. He was tortured during that time, but said he wasn't subjected to waterboarding.

>>The US tried and executed Japanese for using waterboarding.<<

They did huh? Then I'm sure you'll be able to provide us with the names and dates of these trails and executions.

John McCain pointed this out. Apparently on Planet Christian Anarchy, the news does not get around too well.


=================================================


"If the United States was in another conflict, which could easily happen, with another country, and we have allowed that kind of torture to be inflicted on people we hold captive, then there's nothing to prevent that enemy from also torturing American prisoners," McCain said.

McCain also said the presidential primary process needs to be straightened out, and if the political parties can't, Congress should.

"The people deserve a longer process of scrutiny of the candidates and they're not getting it. It is a little bizarre for us to be having a primary on Jan. 3," said McCain, referring to the Iowa caucus.

Florida moved up its primary election to Jan. 29, and Michigan later set a Jan. 15 date, moves that set off a scramble that resulted in Iowa's caucus and the New Hampshire's primary moving up to preserve their early voting status. New Hampshire will vote Jan. 8.

New Hampshire, Iowa and South Carolina should still be allowed to pick their candidates ahead of the rest of the country, but the country should then be divided into four sections with voting in each on a schedule that allows candidates time to campagn in each region before moving to the next, McCain said.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Richpo64

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Re: No doubt it works
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2007, 10:40:35 AM »
Okay, I'll repeat the question:

Then I'm sure you'll be able to provide us with the names and dates of these trails and executions.

There are  plenty of examples of war crimes committed by the Japanese. The question is, is there anything simiiliar in what they did, and what we call water boarding today? Most people would say no. The example you give cites a prison sentence of 15 years. Was this the only crime committed? I doubt it. No execution.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2007, 10:50:20 AM by Richpo64 »

Richpo64

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Re: No doubt it works
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2007, 10:59:25 AM »
Something else here, this debate is pointless at this point. The democrats have once against taken away a useful tool that has saved American lives. We now know the brain addled Nancy Pelosi supported water boarding and worried that it might not be a strong enough method, as did that intellectual giant Rockefeller. Now however, the anti-everything-American left have put the butchers on notice that water boarding is a harmless way to scare them into telling us where they plan to kill the next group of women and children. They need not fear drowning thanks to the American left and it's fake outrage.

The next thing the left will want is for American forces to read terrorists their Miranda rights (another liberal atrocity) after capturing them using silk gloves.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: No doubt it works
« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2007, 11:43:51 AM »
If you think that Juniorbush and his henchmen are no longer waterboarding, you are almost certainly wrong. All that has happened is that they will now continue to torture, only they will be even more secretive, and if they have any records, they will destroy them, as we have seen.

I think putting Rumsfeld and Cheney away in a prison like the one enjoyed with the convicted Japanese general would send a lot better message.

You might as well give up, as you have convinced no one.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: No doubt it works
« Reply #51 on: December 15, 2007, 11:09:07 PM »
Has any president ever done more to limit the harshness of treatment of our POWS than has President Bush?

EVERY president has done more than Juniorbush. Ask Amnesty International.

The US tried and executed Japanese for using waterboarding.

Then, it was clearly a war crime, but under Juniorbush, "it depends".

What a load!

No , you have not pointed out a single real instance of any president produceing a limit on harsh treatment , by executive order or otherwise.

I just learned from another poster that Washington and Lincon did , but ca'tyou find an example ofa more recent president doing so?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: No doubt it works
« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2007, 12:39:32 PM »
ASK AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL. Jeez.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Richpo64

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Re: No doubt it works
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2007, 06:39:39 PM »
>>If you think that Juniorbush and his henchmen are no longer waterboarding, you are almost certainly wrong. All that has happened is that they will now continue to torture, only they will be even more secretive, and if they have any records, they will destroy them, as we have seen.<<

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to protect these CIA agents identity. If these tapes were released they would surely diclose the identity of these agents putting their mission and their lives at riisk. Afterall, you agressivley protest against Valerie Plame's identity being released, even thought she wasn't covert and her husband had already given her name to the public. As for waterboarding terrorists in porder to save lives, I hope the president is still doing it of course. Well, unless it was you are your family in danger, then I would hope he would take your wishes into consideration just ask nicely.


>>You might as well give up, as you have convinced no one.<<

I never plan on convincing you of anything. You're to far gone.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: No doubt it works
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2007, 08:22:57 PM »
I seriously doubt that the CIA lacks the expertise to edit the faces and voices of their torturers from these tapes. As an agency that dedicates vast amounts of resources to disinformation, if they couldn't edit the tapes, they deserve to be fired and demoted to janitorial duties.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: No doubt it works
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2007, 10:36:21 PM »
ASK AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL. Jeez.




http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/feature-stories/poems-from-guantanamo-20071212


They don't know whether previous presidents forbid more or less harsh treatment than President Bush , neither do you apparently.

hnumpah

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Re: No doubt it works
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2007, 11:58:57 PM »
Quote
I don't understand why you wouldn't want to protect these CIA agents identity.

Because if they were committing torture, then they were committing criminal acts.

Something neither Valerie Plame nor her husband did, by the way.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

BT

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Re: No doubt it works
« Reply #57 on: December 17, 2007, 12:00:16 AM »
Quote
Something neither Valerie Plame nor her husband did, by the way.

How do we know that?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: No doubt it works
« Reply #58 on: December 17, 2007, 08:19:33 AM »
How do we know that?

====================
One way we might guess that is that no charges have even been made against them. Not even Mad Jane Coulter has accused them of anything.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Richpo64

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Re: No doubt it works
« Reply #59 on: December 17, 2007, 12:41:25 PM »
>>Because if they were committing torture, then they were committing criminal acts.<<

Waterboarding isn't torture. What torture are you referring too?